In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:f896b734-ca95-4e0b-ae04-8250a65aa5b6">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Not gonna lie, that sounds awful. Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]
Say what? How could eggs + vanilla + sugar = awful?
To me, it's like the precursor to Gooey Butter Cake.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:c008a299-b1e1-4d75-a06b-cb978b84405c">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Don't take this the wrong way, but have you lived anywhere other than Tucson? Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]
I'm an Air Force brat, so yes -- all over the US and parts of Asia, but I was in California the longest, so I consider it "home."
I don't actually live in Tucson. I'm closer to Phoenix, but TK doesn't recognize my zip code.
And yes, sweet tea IS nectar of the Gods. Thank God for Cracker Barrel so I can still have my fix.
Do not mess in the affairs of dinosaurs because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
I love you Missy. Even though you are not smart enough to take online quizzes to find out really important information. ~cew
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:dab9b60c-7594-4ba3-9bc1-16866c5c79f5">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Hopefully my second-to-last post clarified my position then. <strong> But the truth is, I don't feel any sort of overwhelming pride JUST because some fortunate accident of birth made me an American citizen. </strong> And I resent the hell out of people who tell me that if I don't bleed red, white and blue, I don't "deserve" to be here. I'll admit, I could be overly sensitive to this because I live in rural Arizona and am a bleeding heart liberal. If you sympathize with the Mexican immigrant population* -- which I do -- then you're pretty much written off as unpatriotic and un-American and told to GTFO. * Note that legal status doesn't matter. Racial profiling is very much a reality here (and elsewhere, I'm sure), no matter how hard our governor and sheriff pretend otherwise. Posted by Celles[/QUOTE] so, no matter where you were born, you wouldn't have a loyalty to it? if you were born in Ireland, would you not be proud of your nationality?
It's absolutely indoctrination Mery. Everyone does it. It's obviously in the best interest of a nation to have a group of people who believe in being American or Canadian, or Russian or French because they're less likely to rise in rebellion.
Celles, if your feeling of inclusion in a nation is based upon liking what the leadership does, you're going to be fucked anywhere you live, and that's a fact. You have to realize that your LEADERSHIP is separate from your LAND. In Italian, they use the word terra (land) instead of country because of the difference between the government you have, and the land that you keep.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:09627853-1907-4a24-afeb-17bb50450594">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Say what? How could eggs + vanilla + sugar = awful? To me, it's like the precursor to Gooey Butter Cake. Dammit. Now I want GBC. Posted by georgia_bride09[/QUOTE] it does sound kinda gross. but I'm not a huge custard fan, which this reminds me of.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:28a99559-26ac-4f0c-8935-7d4a2cabe7dc">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]I think there is a lot more to be proud of the US for than just who is in office. In fact my pride for being an American has very little to do with who the president is. And really, will we ever reach an era where people stop blaming "the Bushes"? It's really losing its flair. Posted by kate51485[/QUOTE]
To bring two separate conversations together ;), Bush Jr. squandered the tremendous outpouring of goodwill that the US received from the rest of the world in the aftermath of 9/11 with his irrelevant (and, arguably, illegal) invasion of a country <em>that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. </em>Until last night, that war was still ongoing.
Aw, Missy, now I'm sad for you. Cracker Barrel's sweet tea is not awesome. You need to come on down to Georgia and I'll make you some. Or you could probably pop into Looziana and LC could make you some. CB doesn't use enough sugar.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:e15a9eac-75b2-4fa7-8d92-ed0c46d960f6">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : I'm an Air Force brat, so yes -- all over the US and parts of Asia, but I was in California the longest, so I consider it "home." I don't actually live in Tucson. I'm closer to Phoenix, but TK doesn't recognize my zip code. Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]
That's what I figured. It's hardest to live, and feel a part of a place where your ideas don't fit with the local population. However, I think you're misplacing your feelings of discontent with the nation as a whole, instead of with the area in which you are residing.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:b6e1cfaa-095f-4541-8c25-8ad4293c7bca">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]Aw, Missy, now I'm sad for you. Cracker Barrel's sweet tea is not awesome. You need to come on down to Georgia and I'll make you some. Or you could probably pop into Looziana and LC could make you some. CB doesn't use enough sugar. Posted by georgia_bride09[/QUOTE]
I can't tell you how much I hate sweet tea. blech.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:714b9250-c0c6-42bf-a93c-5103258b02e2">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]also, is your bleeding heart a preexisting condition? Posted by laladypoet[/QUOTE]
Well-played. I LOL'd for real (and then had to convince a coworker that accounting really is this fun />.>).
Celles, I think I understand what you're trying to say. Honestly, I believe that patriotism doesn't mean wearing the flag on a t-shirt, but rather, questioning "what is the best for my country?". I've been abroad only to Europe (and lived in Eastern and Western Europe) and I will see that generally speaking, they seem to know a lot more about the world and seem "more open".
However, going back to what Amoro said, you're really going to find the mentality you hate in EVERY country in the world. There are always other people in different countries that have over-bearing patriotism and as far as the legal rights for immigration and feeling bad for the Mexican population, well...I feel like every country has immigrants they don't want there. It's actually worse abroad since some countries are not used to be a melting pot like America has been.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:6f0f1f65-5598-4e88-b9af-1d4778dbc9a0">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : To bring two separate conversations together ;), Bush Jr. squandered the tremendous outpouring of goodwill that the US received from the rest of the world in the aftermath of 9/11 with his irrelevant (and, arguably, illegal) invasion of a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Until last night, that war was still ongoing. Posted by Celles[/QUOTE] yes, ok, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. but can anyone say we didn't do a good thing by killing sadaam?
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:e3c0377d-c1c0-40fa-8ef8-b0b2bc549d4b">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Well-played. I LOL'd for real (and then had to convince a coworker that accounting really is this fun />. />). Posted by Celles[/QUOTE] :)
I can understand that, Celles. SoCal is pretty racist as well.
Tati, your dad chose to leave his home country and move to the US. Does he have anything bad to say about his home country? Clearly he saw reasons to move somewhere else. So if Celles wants to move somewhere else, she has that right as well.
I love the LAND of Arizona. It's beautiful -- absolutely breathtaking, especially where I live, in the middle of nowhere, where sunrises and sunsets last forever and paint the entire desert. But our local and state governments... not so much. I hate the entire immigration debacle, and I hate how people here are reacting to it and how our so-called leaders are preying upon totally irrational fears and fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance. Maybe my perspective would be different if I lived elsewhere in the country; I sincerely hope so.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:5136ef1a-0506-4bd7-8f5a-1f7cd15976b4">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]Celles, I think I understand what you're trying to say. Honestly, I believe that patriotism doesn't mean wearing the flag on a t-shirt, but rather, questioning "what is the best for my country?". I've been abroad only to Europe (and lived in Eastern and Western Europe) and I will see that generally speaking, they seem to know a lot more about the world and seem "more open". However, going back to what Amoro said, you're really going to find the mentality you hate in EVERY country in the world. There are always other people in different countries that have over-bearing patriotism and as far as the legal rights for immigration and feeling bad for the Mexican population, well...I feel like every country has immigrants they don't want there. It's actually worse abroad since some countries are not used to be a melting pot like America has been. Hopefully this makes sense.... Posted by TatiMarie[/QUOTE]
It does.
I understand -- and thanks (to you and Amoro!) for the reminder that it isn't just us. :)
There's a BBQ chain that serves sweet tea that isn't bad. And I'm not a Pepsi girl, so if I can't have a Coke, then I want tea. And lately, I haven't been carrying a purse, so no stash of Splenda, so no tea for me unless the restaurant has it. But Famous Dave's does.
I do miss almost every restaurant carrying it. I can also still get it at McD's. I just can't make a whole pitcher for myself, and J won't drink it at all.
And now I'm thinking of making a chess pie this weekend.
Do not mess in the affairs of dinosaurs because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
I love you Missy. Even though you are not smart enough to take online quizzes to find out really important information. ~cew
I remember the first month or so I was in the US, and we visited some friends in Alabama. I always order iced tea, so when they asked if I wanted it sweetened, I thought they just meant you know, chilled tea with some sugar. Oh lord. I'm sorry, it was gross, lol. My FI laughed at me for like an hour for not knowing what sweet tea was. I started ordering lemonade after that.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:75e1825d-5efd-4e8b-bb9c-023cbfe0cdfb">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]Celles if you don't like it here than instead of leaving why don't you run? For office that is? <strong>Use the system to make the changes you are talking about or stop complaining about America.</strong> Posted by mgietler76[/QUOTE]
Seriously? And not just to you, I'm kind of in awe that people are saying "if you don't like it leave." I agree that if you hate where you live, you should leave - but more for your own personal happiness (and the happiness of those who have to listen to you complain) than because it's objectively the right thing to do. And it bugs me to hear people be 100% down on the country they live in, but I don't think that they have some moral obligation to leave.
Nowhere is perfect. There are things I hate about living in Chile, there are things I dislike about the US. Talking about those things sometimes means that someone else will see my point and agree with me, and then that's one more person who's going to avoid doing that in the future and pass on the message. I don't have to run for office and enact a law; it's often just about trying to get people/society's behaviors to change. Or, frankly, sometimes you recognize that change is unrealistic, but something still bugs you - your only options are really to either get elected or shut up?
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:5136ef1a-0506-4bd7-8f5a-1f7cd15976b4">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]Celles, I think I understand what you're trying to say. Honestly, I believe that patriotism doesn't mean wearing the flag on a t-shirt, but rather, questioning "what is the best for my country?". I've been abroad only to Europe (and lived in Eastern and Western Europe) and I will see that generally speaking, they seem to know a lot more about the world and seem "more open". However, going back to what Amoro said, you're really going to find the mentality you hate in EVERY country in the world. There are always other people in different countries that have over-bearing patriotism and as far as the legal rights for immigration and feeling bad for the Mexican population, well...I feel like every country has immigrants they don't want there. It's actually worse abroad since some countries are not used to be a melting pot like America has been. Hopefully this makes sense.... Posted by TatiMarie[/QUOTE]
France, for example, just forcibly removed a population of Roma's simply because they are who they are. They also have banned the wearing of any type of religious head covering in any school or governement building. If a government official (ie the police) asks a woman to remove her face covering for identification purposes, and she refuses because the officer is a man, well, she goes to jail. A woman recently went to the doctor to get a prescription, and he asked her to remove her head covering so he could identify her, she told him no. All the doctor had to do was get a female nurse to identify her, and everything was good. Nope. It's a court case now.
In Sweden, a life sentence for murder is 30 years.
Italians hate anyone who isn't Italian. The things that happened to H while we lived there makes my blood boil. And Berlusconi?? That man makes Bush look smart, yo.
Point being Celles, you aren't going to find a perfect place anywhere.
Mery, actually both my parents are from the same country (but my mom left when she was like 5). She moved to escape communism and my dad moved to London and loved it there, but pretty much moved to America because he met my mom.
I definitely agree with what you're saying, and I'm not personally bashing Celles. I actually think if she would be happier in Canada then she should move! (That's not snarky btw).
The funny thing about my dad is I think he lives in limbo so to speak. Whenever I talk to friends/family who were born in other countries and now live in the U.S., they are always stuck in the middle. I guess it's one of those things that the proverbial grass is always green.
Lala -- Saddam was evil, no dobut about it. But if we let the ends justify the means, how do we ever draw a line? Do we dispose every dictator? Do we commit the resources to stopping every genocide? These are largely open-ended questions. I'm not even disagreeing with you, really; I don't have answers.
Georgia -- I missed that until someone else quoted it. Of course you're entitled to your opinion. My point was that if I'm dissatisified with my country, then I have a right to work from within to change it (and, for the record, I do; I'm not suited to political office myself, but I am active politically and either volunteer with or donate to those organizations and candidates whose values I support. Not surprisingly, I'm sure, I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU.)
You'd be amazed by how many people express some variation of Kate#'s sentiment: "If you don't like it here, leave." More than anything else, that's the idea I'm responding to (although as Lala pointed out, I didn't express it clearly at first). At some point, you get so tired of hearing it -- and seething over it -- that you do, in fact, want to leave.
My favorite bumper sticker ever reads "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." I just wish more people believed it.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_unpopular-opinions-7?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fade0848-bd76-4130-94f7-582a263d78a4Post:506d8ac6-6322-4c71-9087-2c3215bce11a">Re: unpopular opinions?</a>: [QUOTE]What exactly is a star-spangled fool? Posted by pinkpinot[/QUOTE]
emilyinchile I definately did not mean it like that. But I do believe if someone is so unhappy with what they see happening in their country than yes maybe they should run for office if they feel so passionate about it that they want to leave altogether. I never said she should leave and I don't don't think that solves anything. If everyone who didn't like what was happening in their government just left who would be around to change policies and make their government answer to the people.
My unpopular opinion: I despise PETA with every bone in my body. How can you claim to be "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" when you'd rather euthanize perfectly healthy animals then be bothered advertising & marketing these animals for adoptions? It makes me sick. http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
Re: unpopular opinions?
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Not gonna lie, that sounds awful.
Posted by kikibaby[/QUOTE]
Say what? How could eggs + vanilla + sugar = awful?
To me, it's like the precursor to Gooey Butter Cake.
Dammit. Now I want GBC.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Don't take this the wrong way, but have you lived anywhere other than Tucson?
Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]
I'm an Air Force brat, so yes -- all over the US and parts of Asia, but I was in California the longest, so I consider it "home."
I don't actually live in Tucson. I'm closer to Phoenix, but TK doesn't recognize my zip code.
Do not mess in the affairs of dinosaurs because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
I love you Missy. Even though you are not smart enough to take online quizzes to find out really important information. ~cew
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Hopefully my second-to-last post clarified my position then. <strong> But the truth is, I don't feel any sort of overwhelming pride JUST because some fortunate accident of birth made me an American citizen. </strong> And I resent the hell out of people who tell me that if I don't bleed red, white and blue, I don't "deserve" to be here. I'll admit, I could be overly sensitive to this because I live in rural Arizona and am a bleeding heart liberal. If you sympathize with the Mexican immigrant population* -- which I do -- then you're pretty much written off as unpatriotic and un-American and told to GTFO. * Note that legal status doesn't matter. Racial profiling is very much a reality here (and elsewhere, I'm sure), no matter how hard our governor and sheriff pretend otherwise.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]
so, no matter where you were born, you wouldn't have a loyalty to it? if you were born in Ireland, would you not be proud of your nationality?
{pwanning}{mawwied}
{pwanning}{mawwied}
Celles, if your feeling of inclusion in a nation is based upon liking what the leadership does, you're going to be fucked anywhere you live, and that's a fact. You have to realize that your LEADERSHIP is separate from your LAND. In Italian, they use the word terra (land) instead of country because of the difference between the government you have, and the land that you keep.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Say what? How could eggs + vanilla + sugar = awful? To me, it's like the precursor to Gooey Butter Cake. Dammit. Now I want GBC.
Posted by georgia_bride09[/QUOTE]
it does sound kinda gross. but I'm not a huge custard fan, which this reminds me of.
{pwanning}{mawwied}
[QUOTE]I think there is a lot more to be proud of the US for than just who is in office. In fact my pride for being an American has very little to do with who the president is. And really, will we ever reach an era where people stop blaming "the Bushes"? It's really losing its flair.
Posted by kate51485[/QUOTE]
To bring two separate conversations together ;), Bush Jr. squandered the tremendous outpouring of goodwill that the US received from the rest of the world in the aftermath of 9/11 with his irrelevant (and, arguably, illegal) invasion of a country <em>that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. </em>Until last night, that war was still ongoing.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : I'm an Air Force brat, so yes -- all over the US and parts of Asia, but I was in California the longest, so I consider it "home." I don't actually live in Tucson. I'm closer to Phoenix, but TK doesn't recognize my zip code.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]
That's what I figured. It's hardest to live, and feel a part of a place where your ideas don't fit with the local population. However, I think you're misplacing your feelings of discontent with the nation as a whole, instead of with the area in which you are residing.
[QUOTE]Aw, Missy, now I'm sad for you. Cracker Barrel's sweet tea is not awesome. You need to come on down to Georgia and I'll make you some. Or you could probably pop into Looziana and LC could make you some. CB doesn't use enough sugar.
Posted by georgia_bride09[/QUOTE]
I can't tell you how much I hate sweet tea. blech.
[QUOTE]also, is your bleeding heart a preexisting condition?
Posted by laladypoet[/QUOTE]
Well-played. I LOL'd for real (and then had to convince a coworker that accounting really is this fun />.>).
However, going back to what Amoro said, you're really going to find the mentality you hate in EVERY country in the world. There are always other people in different countries that have over-bearing patriotism and as far as the legal rights for immigration and feeling bad for the Mexican population, well...I feel like every country has immigrants they don't want there. It's actually worse abroad since some countries are not used to be a melting pot like America has been.
Hopefully this makes sense....
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : To bring two separate conversations together ;), Bush Jr. squandered the tremendous outpouring of goodwill that the US received from the rest of the world in the aftermath of 9/11 with his irrelevant (and, arguably, illegal) invasion of a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Until last night, that war was still ongoing.
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]
yes, ok, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. but can anyone say we didn't do a good thing by killing sadaam?
{pwanning}{mawwied}
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: unpopular opinions? : Well-played. I LOL'd for real (and then had to convince a coworker that accounting really is this fun />. />).
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]
:)
{pwanning}{mawwied}
Tati, your dad chose to leave his home country and move to the US. Does he have anything bad to say about his home country? Clearly he saw reasons to move somewhere else. So if Celles wants to move somewhere else, she has that right as well.
40/112
I love the LAND of Arizona. It's beautiful -- absolutely breathtaking, especially where I live, in the middle of nowhere, where sunrises and sunsets last forever and paint the entire desert. But our local and state governments... not so much. I hate the entire immigration debacle, and I hate how people here are reacting to it and how our so-called leaders are preying upon totally irrational fears and fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance. Maybe my perspective would be different if I lived elsewhere in the country; I sincerely hope so.
[QUOTE]Celles, I think I understand what you're trying to say. Honestly, I believe that patriotism doesn't mean wearing the flag on a t-shirt, but rather, questioning "what is the best for my country?". I've been abroad only to Europe (and lived in Eastern and Western Europe) and I will see that generally speaking, they seem to know a lot more about the world and seem "more open". However, going back to what Amoro said, you're really going to find the mentality you hate in EVERY country in the world. There are always other people in different countries that have over-bearing patriotism and as far as the legal rights for immigration and feeling bad for the Mexican population, well...I feel like every country has immigrants they don't want there. It's actually worse abroad since some countries are not used to be a melting pot like America has been. Hopefully this makes sense....
Posted by TatiMarie[/QUOTE]
It does.
I understand -- and thanks (to you and Amoro!) for the reminder that it isn't just us. :)
I do miss almost every restaurant carrying it. I can also still get it at McD's. I just can't make a whole pitcher for myself, and J won't drink it at all.
And now I'm thinking of making a chess pie this weekend.
Do not mess in the affairs of dinosaurs because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
I love you Missy. Even though you are not smart enough to take online quizzes to find out really important information. ~cew
[QUOTE]Celles if you don't like it here than instead of leaving why don't you run? For office that is? <strong>Use the system to make the changes you are talking about or stop complaining about America.</strong>
Posted by mgietler76[/QUOTE]
Seriously? And not just to you, I'm kind of in awe that people are saying "if you don't like it leave." I agree that if you hate where you live, you should leave - but more for your own personal happiness (and the happiness of those who have to listen to you complain) than because it's objectively the right thing to do. And it bugs me to hear people be 100% down on the country they live in, but I don't think that they have some moral obligation to leave.
Nowhere is perfect. There are things I hate about living in Chile, there are things I dislike about the US. Talking about those things sometimes means that someone else will see my point and agree with me, and then that's one more person who's going to avoid doing that in the future and pass on the message. I don't have to run for office and enact a law; it's often just about trying to get people/society's behaviors to change. Or, frankly, sometimes you recognize that change is unrealistic, but something still bugs you - your only options are really to either get elected or shut up?
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[QUOTE]Celles, I think I understand what you're trying to say. Honestly, I believe that patriotism doesn't mean wearing the flag on a t-shirt, but rather, questioning "what is the best for my country?". I've been abroad only to Europe (and lived in Eastern and Western Europe) and I will see that generally speaking, they seem to know a lot more about the world and seem "more open". However, going back to what Amoro said, you're really going to find the mentality you hate in EVERY country in the world. There are always other people in different countries that have over-bearing patriotism and as far as the legal rights for immigration and feeling bad for the Mexican population, well...I feel like every country has immigrants they don't want there. It's actually worse abroad since some countries are not used to be a melting pot like America has been. Hopefully this makes sense....
Posted by TatiMarie[/QUOTE]
France, for example, just forcibly removed a population of Roma's simply because they are who they are. They also have banned the wearing of any type of religious head covering in any school or governement building. If a government official (ie the police) asks a woman to remove her face covering for identification purposes, and she refuses because the officer is a man, well, she goes to jail. A woman recently went to the doctor to get a prescription, and he asked her to remove her head covering so he could identify her, she told him no. All the doctor had to do was get a female nurse to identify her, and everything was good. Nope. It's a court case now.
In Sweden, a life sentence for murder is 30 years.
Italians hate anyone who isn't Italian. The things that happened to H while we lived there makes my blood boil. And Berlusconi?? That man makes Bush look smart, yo.
Point being Celles, you aren't going to find a perfect place anywhere.
Mery, actually both my parents are from the same country (but my mom left when she was like 5). She moved to escape communism and my dad moved to London and loved it there, but pretty much moved to America because he met my mom.
I definitely agree with what you're saying, and I'm not personally bashing Celles. I actually think if she would be happier in Canada then she should move! (That's not snarky btw).
The funny thing about my dad is I think he lives in limbo so to speak. Whenever I talk to friends/family who were born in other countries and now live in the U.S., they are always stuck in the middle. I guess it's one of those things that the proverbial grass is always green.
What exactly is a star-spangled fool?
Georgia -- I missed that until someone else quoted it. Of course you're entitled to your opinion. My point was that if I'm dissatisified with my country, then I have a right to work from within to change it (and, for the record, I do; I'm not suited to political office myself, but I am active politically and either volunteer with or donate to those organizations and candidates whose values I support. Not surprisingly, I'm sure, I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU.)
You'd be amazed by how many people express some variation of Kate#'s sentiment: "If you don't like it here, leave." More than anything else, that's the idea I'm responding to (although as Lala pointed out, I didn't express it clearly at first). At some point, you get so tired of hearing it -- and seething over it -- that you do, in fact, want to leave.
My favorite bumper sticker ever reads "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." I just wish more people believed it.
[QUOTE]What exactly is a star-spangled fool?
Posted by pinkpinot[/QUOTE]
Either imagery or hyperbole. Or both. :)
My unpopular opinion: I despise PETA with every bone in my body. How can you claim to be "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" when you'd rather euthanize perfectly healthy animals then be bothered advertising & marketing these animals for adoptions? It makes me sick.
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/