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Wedding Customs & Traditions Forum
SpartanCat
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Catholic Compromise
I'm sure there's been lots of posts about this but I haven't had much time to search.
I am not engaged yet but we have been discussing it for a year or two now. One of the biggest obstacles, besides the budget, that we have been skirting around because we're both worried that we won't agree is the actual ceremony. The future fiance's entire family is Catholic though he is not practicing beyond special events. Both his brother and sister have been married in Catholic ceremonies. I am a Methodist and though I'm not a practicing one, and for my own reasons I would still prefer not to have a Catholic wedding. He wants a Catholic ceremony mainly to please his family. I feel a bit bratty but I don't think I should be forced to conduct a Catholic ceremony to please his extended family. Am I out of line? Do you have any suggestions on compromising Catholic ceremonies with other faiths or even secular? Any assistance would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
Julie
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Catholic Compromise
Hahahahaha. You are the only Catholic I know who feels this way, outside of the priesthood. I don't even know nuns who would support denying a man communion for marrying outside the Church. Get a clue. Most Catholics get married outside the church these days. The church places too many restrictions on couples. Even people who want a Catholic ceremony get a deacon and have a blessing instead so they can have their outdoor wedding. This man does not care about his own faith. He wants to please his family, and therefore he should not subject his wouldbe wife to the church fathers telling her to get off her birth control and start using the rhythm method.
In Response to Re:Catholic Compromise:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic Compromise:Thanks Pippa that's very helpful. I don't mind a religious ceremony but I don't agree with catholocism. To each their own, I do NOT want to start a religious debate, it's just not for me. P.S. Ew. My body is my personal business.Posted by SpartanCatPippa is just wrong.nbsp; You will be required to have counseling to be married in the United Methodist church, too.nbsp; Most ministers will want to discuss your personal history and plans for the future, too.nbsp; If you don't want to talk about this, get married in a courthouse.What is it that bothers you so much about the Catholic faith?nbsp; To each his own, but you don't have to convert to get married in a Catholic church. Posted by CMGr[/QUOTE]
I am not wrong. You may have to do marriage counseling in other churches, but the Catholic church is the only one that directly asks about your birth control, tells you it is like 1000 abortions, and hammers you natural family planning.
I said nothing about converting to Catholicism. I said you didnt have to convert to episcopalian to be married there. Like, neither of you, so neither OP nor FI would have to convert. And only one has to even be baptized. In the catholic church, both have to be baptized and one of you has to be Catholic. I know this bc my brother can't get the Sacrament bc his FI never got baptized in the Lutheran church and won't just for a wedding.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Catholic Compromise: Hahahahaha. You are the only Catholic I know who feels this way, outside of the priesthood. I don't even know nuns who would support denying a man communion for marrying outside the Church. Get a clue. Most Catholics get married outside the church these days. The church places too many restrictions on couples. Even people who want a Catholic ceremony get a deacon and have a blessing instead so they can have their outdoor wedding. This man does not care about his own faith. He wants to please his family, and therefore he should not subject his wouldbe wife to the church fathers telling her to get off her birth control and start using the rhythm method.
Posted by runpipparun[/QUOTE]
Pippa, I'm sorry but your post is out of line and horribly incorrect. Most practicing Catholics DO get married in the Church. Most practicing Catholics believe in the reasons behind the rubrics that the Church has laid out. They appreciate that the Church holds marriage in such high regard and requires couples to put forth effort.
The Rhythm Method <u><strong>is not</strong></u> NFP. The Church does NOT recommend the Rhythm Method AT ALL. NFP has helped many, many women solve health problems that their pill-pushing doctors were neglecting. So, before you start spewing hatred and falsehoods, do some research, or simply keep quiet.
OP - I agree with the above. You need to speak to your future FI about the role religion will play in his life, not just for the wedding day. As a Catholic, I wouldn't want someone who didn't care about the Church and her doctrines to be using a Catholic ceremony simply to appease family. It's horribly dishonest and I would hate to think of someone standing at the altar, lying to a priest, pretending to believe in the faith. Encourage him to really think about it now, and if he is not really concerned about remaining Catholic, I think it would be best to seek out a non-denominational ceremony that incorporates elements that you two feel comfortable with.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Catholic Compromise: In Response to Re:Catholic Compromise: I am not wrong. You may have to do marriage counseling in other churches, but the Catholic church is the only one that directly asks about your birth control, tells you it is like 1000 abortions, and hammers you natural family planning. I said nothing about converting to Catholicism. I said you didnt have to convert to episcopalian to be married there. Like, neither of you, so neither OP nor FI would have to convert. And only one has to even be baptized. In the catholic church, both have to be baptized and one of you has to be Catholic. I know this bc my brother can't get the Sacrament bc his FI never got baptized in the Lutheran church and won't just for a wedding.
Posted by runpipparun[/QUOTE]
I have never heard of anyone personally that has gone the marriage prep with the Catholic Church and been asked about their birth control. Also - NFP classes are not mandatory in every parish. I was not required to take one myself. I chose to learn the method for my own health.
A Catholic can have a sacramental marriage if they are marrying a baptized Christian. If a Catholic marries someone who is not baptized, they are still validly married according to the Church and if the unbaptized person was to be baptized later, their marriage would immediately be sacramental.
[QUOTE]Riss, I haven't figured out how to quote yet but the part about appeasing his family is spot on. I don't practice myself but I respect the fundamentals and traditions of Christianity and Catholocism. There are just details that I don't agree with. And pleasing other people seems to disrespect the institution. I am trying to find a compromise that works for us both. Personally, a non-denominational approach would be my preference. (Actually that's what brought up the whole conversation. My mom's best friend has always been practically a second mom to me and I asked him if he would mind her officiating as she is ordained.) Thank you for your posts.
Posted by SpartanCat[/QUOTE]
Happy to help! You can quote by clicking on "Reply to this Post" underneath the person's post you want to quote.
Your future FI might be hiding behind his family being the reason, when in reality, he himself wants to have the ceremony. Just make sure you approach him in a supportive way so that he is 100% comfortable. It is a really tricky topic to manuever, so be patient and warm. The funny thing is - the fact that he doesn't go up for communion, as he hasn't gone to confession, makes it seem he is pretty serious about his faith. Many Catholics don't have such restraint!
You may be able to have a ceremony in another Christian church, if you have a relative that is an officiant there. You would just have to get the priest to sign off on it. It would be nearly impossible to have a priest officiate outside of a Catholic Church.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic Compromise : Ummm... Catholicism and Christianity are the same religion. Catholics are Christians. So I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.
Posted by cfaszews25[/QUOTE]
<div>Yes, I believe that Catholicism can be considered by some as Christianity, but for me, I'm a spirit-filled, new testament church Christian, I just don't believe in Catholicism. But I really don't want to get into a debate on this.</div>
[QUOTE]Owning a home, That would be a solution though I'm not sure how it would work. Would that be like having two ceremonies? That would definitely fill his time requirements haha. I actually had a cousin who did a hindi/catholic wedding. It was a beautiful ceremony. Thanks for your post.
Posted by SpartanCat[/QUOTE]
The one I went to was obv an interfaith marriage- the bride was jewish and the groom was catholic and neither was planning to convert. It was one ceremony and the rabbi said his schpiel and then the priest said his schpiel. I am assuming the rabbi contacted the priest and worked it out with him but it was one ceremony... I believe they did break the glass (which is a jewish tradition) and had a huppah but both religions were represented by the clergy and yes, it as well, was a beautiful cermeony.
I'm not religious at all so I don't know how any of this works- we are using a justice of the peace.
I also should mention the ceremony was at the reception venue not a house of worship.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic Compromise : Yes, I believe that Catholicism can be considered by some as Christianity, but for me, I'm a spirit-filled, new testament church Christian, I just don't believe in Catholicism. But I really don't want to get into a debate on this.
Posted by keringtonp[/QUOTE]
<div>
</div><div>What you say? No. As a Catholic who grew up in the buckle of the Bible Belt, I'm familiar with people like you. Do you also think that Catholics are idolators who worship Mary? Just because you've don't know about something doesn't make it less than what you believe. </div>
[QUOTE]Wow, there is so much misinformation about both Catholic and Methodist weddings flying around here that I am not touching it. Instead, I'll focus on the much bigger issue. SpartanCat, if you are too afraid to have this conversation with your boyfriend because you are worried about causing a fight, you two are nowhere near ready to get engaged and plan a wedding. You two need to both figure out what type of role you want religion to play in your lives and future, and which religion that is for each of you. Then you need to be together for a bit with whatever choices those are just kind of hanging around as part of every day life. Finally, you both need to get strong enough to tell your respective parents what your religious choices are and have the ceremony that is the most important, comfortable and meaningful, for both of you. THEN you will be in a place where marriage is a practical possibility.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]
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</div><div>Let me clarify a bit as I do not think I worded the situation clearly. We have had many discussions about religion. Both of us agree on the fundamentals and most of the particulars. Neither of us believe that it is necessary to attend church regularly to be a good person as long as you stick to the fundamental beliefs and values that makes one a good person. Do unto others, don't steal, etc. etc. I need to stress yet again that this is our opinion, not anyone elses. This is how we have both been living for several years. The only time that denomination even comes up is more about which family we are spending the important holiday with as we will attend church with our family members rather than the denomination itself.</div><div>The current situation stands that we will be marrying each other. Due to budgetary and locational issues, he has not proposed. I am not afraid to have the discussion with him, we just have not taken the time to seriously hash it out as it is not the time to until we are planning in earnest. Believe you me, we are more than comfortable having an argument lol. The part about worried about coming to a compromise is mainly me fretting over it in my mind because we haven't had a serious talk about it. </div><div>My main point in creating this post was to ask others if they have been in the situation where their significant other was in a faith of a different denomination (especially as a Catholic as the system is much more...strict is not really the word I want to use but it will have to do), if both parties compromised or if the non catholic must compromise to the catholic. It is due process so when we have the discussion, I can go into it with other options and situations so it does not dissolve into a big fight.</div><div>I appreciate everyone taking the time to share their opinons.</div><div>
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First, I just have to say that I was really offended by Pippa's posts and hope no one took seriously her misinformation.
Second, OP, I agree with the pps that said this really comes down to whether your FI truly wants to pratice his faith. If he does, then you should really consider having the Catholic ceremony. If not, then you two should have a ceremony that more accurately reflects your beliefs (secular, or maybe some other church), and don't cave in to family. Be as gracious to family as possible, but you can't have a particular ceremony just for their sake. Getting married in the Catholic Church is a sacred event, and you're right, it would be disrespectful to the church for you both to marry there if neither one of you believe in it.
I hope you two can really talk about your religious beliefs and figure out how you both want to live (with religious or without). It's important for you to support each other in this way, even if your beliefs aren't exactly the same.
Lastly, I always find it weird when people suggest some "compromise" church. Nothing against the episcopal church, and if either bride or groom believed in it, then I'd say go for it. But if neither person believes in episcopal doctrine, then it doesn't please anyone for them to marry in it because I promise you the Catholic family members will not view it as a "close enough" church.
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</div><div>I'm sorry, but the Catholic church's rules are driving people away. I read an article that stated that the only reason the church's numbers are staying even are because of immigration --- young American Catholics are leaving in droves, as are many Protestants.</div><div>
</div><div>I researched and prayed and meditated on finding a church that I felt met my needs as a woman and as a parishoner in general (I don't know how other Catholics feels, but I get annoyed when my bishop yanks my priest away to serve some rich, whiny parish in another part of the state and gives us some old dude that kills our attendace).</div><div>
</div><div>The Episcopal Church's teachings are not so concrete. They allow me to think as I will. I find it refreshing. But don't say I don't know what I'm talking about w/ regards to the Catholic church.</div><div>
</div>In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-compromise?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:35ad4d8b-beb5-434e-ba63-10fc64b74ffbPost:aa7da800-2ab5-4dcb-8823-9b21a3a560a8">Re: Catholic Compromise</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh my. First, I just have to say that I was really offended by Pippa's posts and hope no one took seriously her misinformation. Second, OP, I agree with the pps that said this really comes down to whether your FI truly wants to pratice his faith. If he does, then you should really consider having the Catholic ceremony. If not, then you two should have a ceremony that more accurately reflects your beliefs (secular, or maybe some other church), and don't cave in to family. Be as gracious to family as possible, but you can't have a particular ceremony just for their sake. Getting married in the Catholic Church is a sacred event, and you're right, it would be disrespectful to the church for you both to marry there if neither one of you believe in it. I hope you two can really talk about your religious beliefs and figure out how you both want to live (with religious or without). It's important for you to support each other in this way, even if your beliefs aren't exactly the same. Lastly, I always find it weird when people suggest some "compromise" church. Nothing against the episcopal church, and if either bride or groom believed in it, then I'd say go for it. But if neither person believes in episcopal doctrine, then it doesn't please anyone for them to marry in it because I promise you the Catholic family members will not view it as a "close enough" church.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Catholic Compromise: In Response to Re:Catholic Compromise: <strong>I am not wrong. You may have to do marriage counseling in other churches, but the Catholic church is the only one that directly asks about your birth control, tells you it is like 1000 abortions, and hammers you natural family planning.</strong> I said nothing about converting to Catholicism. I said you didnt have to convert to episcopalian to be married there. Like, neither of you, so neither OP nor FI would have to convert. And only one has to even be baptized. In the catholic church, both have to be baptized and one of you has to be Catholic. I know this bc my brother can't get the Sacrament bc his FI never got baptized in the Lutheran church and won't just for a wedding.
Posted by runpipparun[/QUOTE]
This? Right here? is 100% wrong. I know this because I'm about 7 weeks away from getting married in my Catholic church. I also know this because I finished my RCIA classes and took my sacraments this Easter. I learned all about this.
I also met with my priest and went over this. I'm on birth control. I had no problems letting my priest know that. There was absolutely no talk about how I've committed 1000 abortions. In fact, the word abortion never came up in conversation. I disclosed the information on my own because I knew it was a hot topic in the Catholic church. Not only did my priest thank me for being so open, he understood why I'm on birth control and while he told me about NFP, he said that was something my FI and I need to discuss as well as my GYN, since you can't just stop taking birth control cold turkey without messing things up.
And a Catholic can marry a non-baptized person in the church, however it is not considered a sacramental marriage.
You are making generalizations based upon your limited experiences. The Church does not teach that you cannot marry a non-Catholic or non-baptized person, but if the person hasn't been baptized you both cannot receive the sacrament of marriage. Your marriage is still perfectly valid and "real"... it's just not sacramental because a non-baptized person cannot receive a sacrament. Baptism is the first sacrament required to receive all other sacraments.
You also falsely claimed that most Catholics marry outside of the Church.
You also make generalizations about NFP classes, and falsely called it the rhythm method. Not all instructors require to look at your chart, but even if they did, it is only to help you understand better how to interpret it.
You don't have to agree with Catholic teaching but it sounds really ignorant when you claim that your priest was all up in your personal business over how you plan your family. Of course he was. That's his job. His job is to look out for your soul and guide you to a good and healthy lifestyle. His job is also to help make sure that your marriage will be holy and healthy. You can disagree with what he or the church believes about marriage, but don't be all surprised when a church or its clergy actually enforces what they teach.
You may like a church that lacks concrete beliefs. I don't. Doesn't matter, because I'm not here judging other people's religions. You are. That's why I'm offended. OP asked for advice on whether to have a Catholic ceremony not on your personal beliefs on the errors of the Catholic Church.
And while I don't think your correct in your assertion that American catholics are leaving in droves, I also think it doesn't matter. I don't choose my faith based upon what is popular or what the majority of Americans agree with. If people choose to leave the Catholic Church, that is their problem, not mine, and I don't think the Church should change just to please the masses. Truth doesn't change.
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[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Catholic Compromise: Hahahahaha. You are the only Catholic I know who feels this way, outside of the priesthood. I don't even know nuns who would support denying a man communion for marrying outside the Church. Get a clue. <strong>Most Catholics get married outside the church these days</strong>. The church places too many restrictions on couples.<strong> Even people who want a Catholic ceremony get a deacon and have a blessing instead so they can have their outdoor wedding</strong>. This man does not care about his own faith. He wants to please his family, and therefore he should not subject his wouldbe wife to the church fathers telling her to get off her birth control and start using the rhythm method.
Posted by runpipparun[/QUOTE]
Where did you get this from?
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Catholic Compromise: Hahahahaha. You are the only Catholic I know who feels this way, outside of the priesthood. I don't even know nuns who would support denying a man communion for marrying outside the Church. Get a clue. Most Catholics get married outside the church these days. The church places too many restrictions on couples. Even people who want a Catholic ceremony get a deacon and have a blessing instead so they can have their outdoor wedding. This man does not care about his own faith. He wants to please his family, and therefore he should not subject his wouldbe wife to the church fathers telling her to get off her birth control and start using the rhythm method.
Posted by runpipparun[/QUOTE]
hahaha, this laugh is on you. CMGr is not Catholic. She is Methodist with a very clear understanding and respect for the Catholic church.
As a (former devout) Catholic, I can assure you that CMGr is absolutely correct. I was married in a Congregational church and was not permitted by my conscience and our beloved Catholic pastor to receive the sacraments, until we had our marriage convalidated by the church.The church has it's reasons for the rules, which you find ridiculous.
Your post was very rude.
[QUOTE]@ Pippa You are making generalizations based upon your limited experiences. The Church does not teach that you cannot marry a non-Catholic or non-baptized person, but if the person hasn't been baptized you both cannot receive the sacrament of marriage. Your marriage is still perfectly valid and "real"... it's just not sacramental because a non-baptized person cannot receive a sacrament. Baptism is the first sacrament required to receive all other sacraments. You also falsely claimed that most Catholics marry outside of the Church. You also make generalizations about NFP classes, and falsely called it the rhythm method. Not all instructors require to look at your chart, but even if they did, it is only to help you understand better how to interpret it. You don't have to agree with Catholic teaching but it sounds really ignorant when you claim that your priest was all up in your personal business over how you plan your family. Of course he was. That's his job. His job is to look out for your soul and guide you to a good and healthy lifestyle. His job is also to help make sure that your marriage will be holy and healthy. You can disagree with what he or the church believes about marriage, but don't be all surprised when a church or its clergy actually enforces what they teach. You may like a church that lacks concrete beliefs. I don't. Doesn't matter, because I'm not here judging other people's religions. You are. That's why I'm offended. OP asked for advice on whether to have a Catholic ceremony not on your personal beliefs on the errors of the Catholic Church. And while I don't think your correct in your assertion that American catholics are leaving in droves, I also think it doesn't matter. I don't choose my faith based upon what is popular or what the majority of Americans agree with. If people choose to leave the Catholic Church, that is their problem, not mine, and I don't think the Church should change just to please the masses. Truth doesn't change.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]
<strong>All of this!
</strong>
OP, I think talking with your FI (as you intend to ) is the best idea. Don't pick a church as a compromise and don't listen to the misinformation about the Catholic church. There is so much misinformation about the church that is widely accepted as fact it gets hard to tell the difference. If your FI really doesn't care about getting married in the church and is ok with everything that entails then maybe a secular wedding or a spiritual wedding would be more suitable..and the family will just have to deal with it. If he really wants the Catholic wedding maybe talking to a priest or someone in the church about the things you like/dislike and finding out the facts will help.
Thank you all for your opinions. I will try to stop stressing over it until the time comes to sit down and have a serious conversation.
I hope I didn't create too much drama. I'm new here and I was trying to aviod a religious debate but it was apparently not the hot button topic to start off with on this site!
Thanks again : )