Ferguson

Sugargirl1019 · November 2014

ashley8918 said:

Sugargirl1019 said:

ashley8918 said:

Sugargirl1019 said:

The pictures so far are just unbelievable. You want to be respected, be respectful. Respectful does not equal agreeing with. But dear lord, they sure are a sad group of people to behave this way.

I would never condone violence, but it would do us all good to hop off of our regal, white privilege, high horses and try to understand. Like @Daria24 said, they have tried doing things the "respectful" (fucking eyeroll) way. IT. DIDN'T. WORK. Clearly, what is happening there is not right, I'm certain that they feel like there is no other way to get people to pay attention. And guess what? It's working. People are paying attention, and they are seeing what the people of Ferguson have been seeing all this time. Horrible injustice, among other things.

Calling them a sad group of people for wanting to be heard? What an ignorant thing to say. Good god.
Sorry for what you think I said, you misunderstood my use of sad.

Yeah, no. "Boy, they sure are a sad group of people to behave this way." pretty clearly does not equal "Poor things! They must be so unhappy!" It oozes condescension.

They ARE a sad people. Upset, torn, bewildered, possibly hopeless. And while I am not being condescending to them, I dislike their actions and wish it wasn't going on. I'd like to think all of us are wishing that violence wasn't happening.

@lc07 good call. I don't know that any of those individuals are aspiring. In the midst of seeing all the protesting and violence, I jumped to feeling that everyone was protesting. So, a wrong declaration, obviously, as we can't prove how other citizens are feeling.

Sugargirl1019 · November 2014

The Attorney General had some wise things to say:

“Though there will be disagreement with the grand jury's decision not to indict, this feeling should not lead to violence. Those who decide to participate in demonstrations should remember the wishes of Michael Brown's parents, who have asked that remembrances of their son be conducted peacefully. It does not honor his memory to engage in violence or looting. In the coming days, it will likewise be important for local law enforcement authorities to respect the rights of demonstrators, and deescalate tensions by avoiding excessive displays—and uses—of force.”

JCbride2015 · November 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

The Attorney General had some wise things to say: “Though there will be disagreement with the grand jury's decision not to indict, this feeling should not lead to violence. Those who decide to participate in demonstrations should remember the wishes of Michael Brown's parents, who have asked that remembrances of their son be conducted peacefully. It does not honor his memory to engage in violence or looting. In the coming days, it will likewise be important for local law enforcement authorities to respect the rights of demonstrators, and deescalate tensions by avoiding excessive displays—and uses—of force.”

Of course our political/ elected/ judicial leaders should urge peace. Nobody is arguing that at all.

The problem is that you (and MANY people on my Facebook feed) seem incapable of practicing some empathy with the rioters here and there is a lot of judgment going on, and painting swaths of people with the same brush. I don't think what they're doing is "right" in a moral or legal sense; of course nobody is condoning violence. But I can understand where they're coming from and why they feel so frustrated they are driven to violence.

ashley8918 · November 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

Sugargirl1019 said:

Sugargirl1019 said:

The pictures so far are just unbelievable. You want to be respected, be respectful. Respectful does not equal agreeing with. But dear lord, they sure are a sad group of people to behave this way.

I would never condone violence, but it would do us all good to hop off of our regal, white privilege, high horses and try to understand. Like @Daria24 said, they have tried doing things the "respectful" (fucking eyeroll) way. IT. DIDN'T. WORK. Clearly, what is happening there is not right, I'm certain that they feel like there is no other way to get people to pay attention. And guess what? It's working. People are paying attention, and they are seeing what the people of Ferguson have been seeing all this time. Horrible injustice, among other things.

Calling them a sad group of people for wanting to be heard? What an ignorant thing to say. Good god.
Sorry for what you think I said, you misunderstood my use of sad.

Yeah, no. "Boy, they sure are a sad group of people to behave this way." pretty clearly does not equal "Poor things! They must be so unhappy!" It oozes condescension.
They ARE a sad people. Upset, torn, bewildered, possibly hopeless. And while I am not being condescending to them, I dislike their actions and wish it wasn't going on. I'd like to think all of us are wishing that violence wasn't happening. @lc07 good call. I don't know that any of those individuals are aspiring. In the midst of seeing all the protesting and violence, I jumped to feeling that everyone was protesting. So, a wrong declaration, obviously, as we can't prove how other citizens are feeling.

Because that's totally what you said. I can not stand when someone can't own up to what they said. It is infuriating.

wandajune6 · November 2014

I wish I was more surprised by tonight. I'll be honest- I'm not as informed about the Mike Brown case as I should be. However, it feels like we live in a time where it is perceived to be ok to shoot unarmed black men- something we learned from Trayvon Martin.

I find the violent responses to be sad, scary, and understandable. As JC alluded to earlier, this is a disenfranchised group of people who feel like the government is telling them that they don't get to feel safe. That must be a terrifying feeling. While this isn't ideal, it gives them a voice. However, the destruction is painful. While I understand why this happens, I get hung up on the fact that the crowds are hurting their own community by hurting local businesses.

I'm currently watching our local protests on the news. I sincerely hope there is no violence.

cheapchicbride16 · November 2014

I don't understand people at all. If I get mad break into places and steal... What purpose does this serve? They don't see that they are making a fool of themselves and destroying their city. Stupid people... Stupid!

fwtx5815 · November 2014

It seems that people were going to protest either way, no matter what the grand jury came out with.

It's sad that a teen lost his life, undoubtedly a tragedy. But the people who don't want to hear fact-based evidence make me want to bang my head against a wall. We'll get to see (mostly) all the evidence that was presented. But the prosecutor has already said, over and over, that a lot of the witness testimonies were either flat out false (as in, they gave statements as though they were present when it turns out they were repeating what they heard from others), and some were actually corroborated by the physical evidence. The media ran with some of those "statements" early on and some people formed their opinions and don't want to hear anything else contradictory. Makes me so fucking ragey.

jdluvr06 · November 2014

I'm not surprised by the decision based on what some of my co-workers were saying today. I didn't follow this closely though so I have no opinion on if he should have been indicted or not.

I have sympathy for the family, the peaceful protestors, and the business owners.

ashley8918 · November 2014

wandajune6 said:

I wish I was more surprised by tonight. I'll be honest- I'm not as informed about the Mike Brown case as I should be. However, it feels like we live in a time where it is perceived to be ok to shoot unarmed black men- something we learned from Trayvon Martin. I find the violent responses to be sad, scary, and understandable. As JC alluded to earlier, this is a disenfranchised group of people who feel like the government is telling them that they don't get to feel safe. That must be a terrifying feeling. While this isn't ideal, it gives them a voice. However, the destruction is painful. While I understand why this happens, I get hung up on the fact that the crowds are hurting their own community by hurting local businesses. I'm currently watching our local protests on the news. I sincerely hope there is no violence.

I am watching as well. I haven't seen anything concerning yet (and it doesn't seem to be heading that way, fortunately), and I am glad that people are making their disgust known outside of Ferguson/St. Louis, too.

JCbride2015 · November 2014

cheapchicbride16 said:

I don't understand people at all. If I get mad break into places and steal... What purpose does this serve? They don't see that they are making a fool of themselves and destroying their city. Stupid people... Stupid!

You sound like you're really informed about the issues and just full of empathy for all those involved. Please, carry on.

holyguacamole79 · November 2014

I just saw this on my Facebook feed - "the next time riots break out after a sporting event championship, I expect everyone to get just as angry as you are tonight."

I hate that this seems like a sad vicious cycle. And I'm even more upset that innocent men and women who simply own a business in Ferguson will also be adversely affected by this violence. They did nothing to deserve the rioting and looting (well, nobody deserves this, but I hope you know what I mean) and their livlihood and safety are compromised.

cheapchicbride16 · November 2014

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

themuffinman16 · November 2014

In very small circumstances am I "okay" with looting. During Katrina, there was looting. I understand during a national disaster, if you have to feed your family or are in dire need of fresh water, and every store is closed. Stealing tvs and electronics... no.. hell, no. Looting because you didn't get your way, is childish. Providing for your family (food or water) in a dire emergency when there are no other options... I will not judge that person.

Whatever happened to civil disobedience? Couldn't they chain themselves together in front of the courthouse? I don't know who thinks property damage will make anyone side with them. If the crowds want people to hear their voice... what is it they are trying to say by looting. Idk

But, if that were my son who was killed, I can't say how I would react. Would I go with civil disobedience, or would I be too mad to be quiet about it? I guess I can say I wouldn't riot because that's who I think I am before something awful happened to me. But I guess we never know how we will deal with issues until we are facing them.

*edited for talking out of my ass

JCbride2015 · November 2014

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

lc07 · November 2014

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

Sorry, but you're the one who sounds stupid here. People are shot and killed every day. And it doesn't make the news. Riots do make the news. They are calling attention to the problem and it's working.

cheapchicbride16 · November 2014

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

holyguacamole79 · November 2014

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

Your words don't make you look smart, either.

lc07 · November 2014

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

They aren't trying to look smart. Clearly, neither are you.

JCbride2015 · November 2014

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

I'm calling racist on this one, flat out. Sorry internet gods for the resulting shitstorm.

ashley8918 · November 2014

lc07 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

Sorry, but you're the one who sounds stupid here. People are shot and killed every day. And it doesn't make the news. Riots do make the news. They are calling attention to the problem and it's working.

This. Not one single person here is arguing that the looting/violence, etc. is "right" It's not. We all know that. It is putting innocent people in danger and hurting businesses. But it absolutely does serve a purpose. The entire country is paying attention to this issue, as it always should have been, but wasn't.

These people have been shown that their lives, and the lives of their children don't matter. They aren't even worth a fair trial. I can only imagine how they must be feeling - I'm sure it doesn't feel like they have a whole lot of options.

lc07 · November 2014

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

I'm calling racist on this one, flat out. Sorry internet gods for the resulting shitstorm.

I'm calling troll but I'll go down with you if need be.

ashley8918 · November 2014

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

Wow. You cannot be fucking serious.

themuffinman16 · November 2014

I would also like to add, shame on the media. The media was waiting and hoping for this reaction so they would have something to report. If they didn't given attention to the crowds after the verdict, protesters probably would have done less with no audience.

I don't even know how I feel about this case. TBH, I haven't followed it closely to have an opinion. I always notice, though, that the media goes into a frenzy over high profile court cases. "How will the crowd react to the news?" It is almost like they are setting the stage because they are so hard up for ratings.

manillabar · November 2014

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

I'm calling racist on this one, flat out. Sorry internet gods for the resulting shitstorm.

Thank you. Because I was just going to ask who "they" was supposed to be referring to.

esstee33 · November 2014

ashley8918 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

Wow. You cannot be fucking serious.

Either a troll or a connoisseur of paint chips.

Viczaesar · November 2014

ashley8918 said:

lyndausvi said:

Is they national guard there? I can't the Ferguson police being effective on their own.

I've been trying to figure this out as well, and I really can't tell. They should be. I don't think that FPD can handle this (again).

They are. I have friends in St. Louis and one of them just ran into two national guards at a grocery store a couple of hours ago.

ashley8918 · November 2014

Viczaesar said:

ashley8918 said:

lyndausvi said:

Is they national guard there? I can't the Ferguson police being effective on their own.

I've been trying to figure this out as well, and I really can't tell. They should be. I don't think that FPD can handle this (again).

They are. I have friends in St. Louis and one of them just ran into two national guards at a grocery store a couple of hours ago.

Good info; thanks! I hope that your friends stay safe tonight!

lc07 · November 2014

esstee33 said:

ashley8918 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

Wow. You cannot be fucking serious.

Either a troll or a connoisseur of paint chips.

Thank you for making me snort.

daria24 · November 2014

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride2015 said:

cheapchicbride16 said:

JCbride... Still... What purpose does it serve??? Lets steal things to show we are made. Lets break the law. Lets make people scared to leave their homes. It's stupid.

You try being oppressed for generations and see what "purpose" you think your anger serves.

Them doing this... Doesn't make them look smart. They should do as someone else stated... Make their city better. Go to the police academy and be the kind of police officer they want. But that would mean they would have to follow the law... Hmmmmmm

Oh my fucking god. I want to write so many things, but I'm going to try to be calm and rational in this reply.

Many of these protestors have tried following the law. And the law has failed them. They have been tear gassed while peacefully protesting. They have watched time and time again as black men in this country have been gunned down by the police with no legal consequences. They have watched as white men like Jarod Laughtner and James Holmes have shot dozens of people and been put in cuffs, while an unarmed black teenager is shot six times. The people out there tonight aren't thinking "well, I'm upset about this situation and let me come up with a plan to express my feelings." They have rage bottled up inside them for years and years and years. And it's coming out tonight. I don't want people hurt. I feel sorry for the business owners who will be cleaning up after this. But I'm not going to pretend like the people out there are thinking rationally about what they want to happen long term.

I can't sit here and call these people stupid. Because we as a country have failed them. I have failed them. I know I've walked this earth for 32 years with an enormous amount of privilege. I know my white brothers and sisters have broken the law at equal rates to people of color and have faced the consequences far less times. Join the police force? Why would they want to join a group that has been oppressing them for decades? Why would that seem like an option? Especially since so many of them have a record before they turn 18. And it's not because they're breaking the law and white teenagers aren't. They just get caught more. And prosecuted versus let off with a warning.

manillabar · November 2014

I don't condone or agree with the violence and looting but boy do I understand the frantic anger, rage, and hurt, the betrayal that all builds up and leads to a reaction like this one. A lot of people seem to be fixated on the fact that this was just "our justice system at work" and everyone needs to go on with business as usual. Except we seem to be forgetting our country's history with both racism and police brutality. I'm not saying every police officer is racist or uses excessive force. I'm not even that well versed in this current case, to be honest, to say for sure what this was. But it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility that this could be another such case. It's not that long ago that a police officer in NY was shoving a broomstick up a Haitian man's behind because he "thought" he punched him (and later admitted he was mistaken). To think that you have no protection from police officers, that men are walking around, armed, who could mistreat you (or kill you!) and get away with it, you may be breaking some windows or setting some fires, too.

And to those who think it is so easy to just join the police force and make a change. Seriously? Does it make sense to join a system that you think is biased against you? Does it sound easy to join a force turned against you and, what, change their minds because of your great personality? Do you think they won't be met with resistance on the other side? That there won't be pressure to "be good" and fall in line with everyone else and "not cause a stir?" I recently read a story about a boy who was called the "n-word" while away at boarding school and didn't want to report it for fear of being called "racial." I've been the only person of color in classes, meetings, and social settings before and I can tell you that the pressure to not be *that* black person (whatever that means) is real.

And honestly, I can admit that I too am speaking from a position of privilege. I am the youngest of five in a very successful family and just about all I have set out to do, career-wise, has been done or attempted before by others in my family (college, medical school, residency). So when I have run across those who think that I cannot succeed, or do not deserve what I have accomplished, I was able to keep trying because I had already seen them proven wrong by my own parents or siblings. But it definitely doesn't make it an easier when you realize what some people really think about you (Like the guidance counselor who told one of my teachers behind my back that I would never get into college, or the classmates you thought were your friends until you got a position that they did not, or the random man in the room who uses the "n-word" and then says it's ok because you're the only black person in the room). And then you realize that all eyes are on you and you'd better act "acceptably" or else you're the "angry black woman." If that's hard enough for me, I can only imagine what it's like for those who haven't even had what I have.

I definitely want peace, too. I don't want anyone else to get hurt, or to lose their business. But I also wouldn't be so quick to judge or condemn.

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