Ferguson

abbyj700 · November 2014

The NYPD has had a long standing reputation for racial profiling. Do they all do it? Of course not. But does that not mean that the organization as a whole should be investigated and policies should be changed? Added training, harsher punishments, more education, new avenues to whistle blow on those cops who need to be turned in - the commissioner himself could start this conversation. The people of New York have started it and will continue to push it until attempts are made. Just like they will in Ferguson.

ChemFanatic25 · November 2014

l9i said:

theycallmelinz said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

l9i said:

Genuine question and most likely a little off topic. For those that are heavily against this and mentioning police shooting unarmed people, are you generally for higher gun regulation?
Not wanting to get into a whole other debate I was just curious whether the two things could be correlated. My theory is those against the officer are for more gun restriction and those for the officer are not.

I am for higher gun regulation but not for this reason. It's because of the school shootings and how easily people can get a hold of a gun. There are so many people who have properly registered their guns and are completely responsible and even if we have higher gun regulation, they will more than likely follow those rules. It's the irresponsible people who will not.

Now I truly believe, banishment of firearms will not salvage this country. I believe that many people who went through with the shootings had mental illness or depression. Many of them didn't see therapists or psychiatrists. I believe that we as a country need to start recognizing that mental health is just as important as physical health and that we can start there to really address the problem of so many people suffering.

Totally agree with this. More gun regulation is only going to affect those that actually follow the rules. And as someone who works in the mental health field, I agree that it doesn't get enough attention, especially when it concerns helping those with mental illness rather than stigmatzing them.

I agree with you both to an extent. My thoughts are more restriction, but also more trained personel that have the potential to minimize violent situations (such as school shootings).
I was just curious because many people fixate on the "he should have used a taser" or just generally there aren't any situations were someone should be shot. I have a few friends who are along these lines and also very "no one should own a gun". Like I said, just curious!

But we should be addressing the issue before it even gets to that point. It should never get to that point. Yes, we should minimize the possibility of more people being killed by guns but (and I am not an expert on this) I have read about the different people who started the school shootings and many of them were bullied, depressed, suicidal. We need to start there. We need to stop the bullying, help those who are depressed, and address those who are suicidal and will cause harm to themselves. We need to get to the root of the problem not just cover it in a blanket and address the "easier issue" which is gun control.

holyguacamole79 · November 2014

OT, but I find it ironic / appropriate that this was also last night -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqJPXVuqs2Y

sarawifenow · November 2014

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

I also have the very unpopular opinion in this case. I won't go into it.

I agree with @sarahufl--the fact that Michael Brown lost his life that day is tragic. Loss of life is always a tragedy IMO.

I grew up in a community where I, a white person, was the minority and have been on the opposite end of racism. It is a terrible feeling and I hate racism across the board.

My family is a family of law enforcement. DH is in law enforcement. The outpouring of "cop hate" has been making me really sick to my stomach over the last several months. I can't even go onto my facebook this morning because it is just flooded. I think people have the right to be angry. I do not think people have the right to loot and hurt their community. All this hate (across all spectrums) really gets to me and hurts my heart.

Ok, that is all I am going to say about this.

You have never, ever, ever, ever, been on the opposite end of racism. You may have been on the end of prejudiced and judgement, but racism exists within a power structure. If you are white, you own the power structure. There is no such thing as reverse racism. It does not exist.

Do not tell me what I have and have not experienced. You have no idea and it is inappropriate. That would be like you telling me what you have experienced FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE and then me telling you that you have never, ever *insert unnecessary use of "ever" to prove a point* experienced it.

ETA:

Here is the definition of racism:

rac·ism

ˈrāˌsizəm/

noun

noun: racism

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"

So yes, reverse racism does exist. If people believe that that all members of a specific race possess certain characteristics. I grew up where people believed all white people were trash. That belief is racist.

southernbelle0915 · November 2014

Maggie0829 said:

pinkrevenge said:

Maggie0829 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion. And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.

Let me be specific then:

Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

How's that?

Again you shouldn't discount others opinions because they don't align with yours. People need to listen to each other and hear each other out when it comes to these situations instead of rushing to judgement and completely writing some off as "garbage" because you don't like what they have to say. How do you expect any type of solution with an attitude like that?

Alright. I guess it's really hard to read the "I'm steaming mad part" - so I guess I'll just start here.

I don't plan to make a solution with people like that because they're fine with the status quo. I plan to move ahead with other allies and leave them to their shitty selves. I'm not crossing the aisle to shake hands with people like that any more than I will for anti-gay marriage people or anti-feminist people. I will move on despite them and I don't need to give them my time.

And if that bothers you, then feel free to wallow in that because I don't give a shit.

That's all I have to say on the subject of "the other viewpoint".

Don't need to give them your time, but you do need to refrain from calling people "garbage" and "shitty" (on these forums anyway - do as you please elsewhere).

QueerFemme · November 2014

sarawifenow said:

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

I also have the very unpopular opinion in this case. I won't go into it.

I agree with @sarahufl--the fact that Michael Brown lost his life that day is tragic. Loss of life is always a tragedy IMO.

I grew up in a community where I, a white person, was the minority and have been on the opposite end of racism. It is a terrible feeling and I hate racism across the board.

My family is a family of law enforcement. DH is in law enforcement. The outpouring of "cop hate" has been making me really sick to my stomach over the last several months. I can't even go onto my facebook this morning because it is just flooded. I think people have the right to be angry. I do not think people have the right to loot and hurt their community. All this hate (across all spectrums) really gets to me and hurts my heart.

Ok, that is all I am going to say about this.

You have never, ever, ever, ever, been on the opposite end of racism. You may have been on the end of prejudiced and judgement, but racism exists within a power structure. If you are white, you own the power structure. There is no such thing as reverse racism. It does not exist.

Do not tell me what I have and have not experienced. You have no idea and it is inappropriate. That would be like you telling me what you have experienced FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE and then me telling you that you have never, ever *insert unnecessary use of "ever" to prove a point* experienced it.

ETA:
Here is the definition of racism:
rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"

This isn't an issue from my perspective. It's fact. Racism in the UNITED STATES (and most other countries) is perpetrated against people of color. White people have the power. People of color don't. Racism is the perpetuation of power and domination. Living in a mostly black community as a white person did not cause you to not be able to get a job, or housing, or get profiled by police, or having a child that you knew might end up dead at the hands of police. Having white privilege means being able to walk away from "racism" whenever you feel like it.

Being in a black community, you may have stood out like a sore thumb, and maybe people didn't like you, but you were not systematically oppressed. You can claim reverse racism all you want, it doesn't make it true.

[Deleted User] · November 2014

jdluvr06 · November 2014

There is no such thing as reverse racism because racism is racism. It doesn't matter if it is white against black, black against white, or blue people against rainbow bright. Racism is racism.

sarawifenow · November 2014

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

I also have the very unpopular opinion in this case. I won't go into it.

I agree with @sarahufl--the fact that Michael Brown lost his life that day is tragic. Loss of life is always a tragedy IMO.

I grew up in a community where I, a white person, was the minority and have been on the opposite end of racism. It is a terrible feeling and I hate racism across the board.

My family is a family of law enforcement. DH is in law enforcement. The outpouring of "cop hate" has been making me really sick to my stomach over the last several months. I can't even go onto my facebook this morning because it is just flooded. I think people have the right to be angry. I do not think people have the right to loot and hurt their community. All this hate (across all spectrums) really gets to me and hurts my heart.

Ok, that is all I am going to say about this.

You have never, ever, ever, ever, been on the opposite end of racism. You may have been on the end of prejudiced and judgement, but racism exists within a power structure. If you are white, you own the power structure. There is no such thing as reverse racism. It does not exist.

Do not tell me what I have and have not experienced. You have no idea and it is inappropriate. That would be like you telling me what you have experienced FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE and then me telling you that you have never, ever *insert unnecessary use of "ever" to prove a point* experienced it.

ETA:
Here is the definition of racism:
rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"

This isn't an issue from my perspective. It's fact. Racism in the UNITED STATES (and most other countries) is perpetrated against people of color. White people have the power. People of color don't. Racism is the perpetuation of power and domination. Living in a mostly black community as a white person did not cause you to not be able to get a job, or housing, or get profiled by police, or having a child that you knew might end up dead at the hands of police. Having white privilege means being able to walk away from "racism" whenever you feel like it.

Being in a black community, you may have stood out like a sore thumb, and maybe people didn't like you, but you were not systematically oppressed. You can claim reverse racism all you want, it doesn't make it true.

I find it very interesting that you assume I was talking about living in a black community. Never once did I say what color the people in my community were....

daria24 · November 2014

sarawifenow said:

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

I also have the very unpopular opinion in this case. I won't go into it.

I agree with @sarahufl--the fact that Michael Brown lost his life that day is tragic. Loss of life is always a tragedy IMO.

I grew up in a community where I, a white person, was the minority and have been on the opposite end of racism. It is a terrible feeling and I hate racism across the board.

My family is a family of law enforcement. DH is in law enforcement. The outpouring of "cop hate" has been making me really sick to my stomach over the last several months. I can't even go onto my facebook this morning because it is just flooded. I think people have the right to be angry. I do not think people have the right to loot and hurt their community. All this hate (across all spectrums) really gets to me and hurts my heart.

Ok, that is all I am going to say about this.

You have never, ever, ever, ever, been on the opposite end of racism. You may have been on the end of prejudiced and judgement, but racism exists within a power structure. If you are white, you own the power structure. There is no such thing as reverse racism. It does not exist.

Do not tell me what I have and have not experienced. You have no idea and it is inappropriate. That would be like you telling me what you have experienced FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE and then me telling you that you have never, ever *insert unnecessary use of "ever" to prove a point* experienced it.

ETA:
Here is the definition of racism:
rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"

So yes, reverse racism does exist. If people believe that that all members of a specific race possess certain characteristics. I grew up where people believed all white people were trash. That belief is racist.

There are competing definitions of racism. It's an enormous debate in the academic community. The Webster's definition is thought of as being "white-centric" by opponents of that definition. Many academics argue that the actual definition should include that it is racial prejudice PLUS an element of power. IE, a minority group cannot act with racism because they do not have political power over the majority group.

You can read more here https://www.andover.edu/About/Newsroom/TheMagazine/Documents/8-PedOfRacismSWJournal.pdf

So, by QueerFemme's argument, as she supports the racial bias+ power definition (as do I), a white person in the US has never experienced racism. You may have experienced bias. But a white person has never had their civil rights violated by the system due to the color of their skin.

We've all dealt with bias and prejudice. No one is denying that.

kat1114 · November 2014

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

I also have the very unpopular opinion in this case. I won't go into it.

I agree with @sarahufl--the fact that Michael Brown lost his life that day is tragic. Loss of life is always a tragedy IMO.

I grew up in a community where I, a white person, was the minority and have been on the opposite end of racism. It is a terrible feeling and I hate racism across the board.

My family is a family of law enforcement. DH is in law enforcement. The outpouring of "cop hate" has been making me really sick to my stomach over the last several months. I can't even go onto my facebook this morning because it is just flooded. I think people have the right to be angry. I do not think people have the right to loot and hurt their community. All this hate (across all spectrums) really gets to me and hurts my heart.

Ok, that is all I am going to say about this.

You have never, ever, ever, ever, been on the opposite end of racism. You may have been on the end of prejudiced and judgement, but racism exists within a power structure. If you are white, you own the power structure. There is no such thing as reverse racism. It does not exist.

Do not tell me what I have and have not experienced. You have no idea and it is inappropriate. That would be like you telling me what you have experienced FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE and then me telling you that you have never, ever *insert unnecessary use of "ever" to prove a point* experienced it.

ETA:
Here is the definition of racism:
rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"

This isn't an issue from my perspective. It's fact. Racism in the UNITED STATES (and most other countries) is perpetrated against people of color. White people have the power. People of color don't. Racism is the perpetuation of power and domination. Living in a mostly black community as a white person did not cause you to not be able to get a job, or housing, or get profiled by police, or having a child that you knew might end up dead at the hands of police. Having white privilege means being able to walk away from "racism" whenever you feel like it.

Being in a black community, you may have stood out like a sore thumb, and maybe people didn't like you, but you were not systematically oppressed. You can claim reverse racism all you want, it doesn't make it true.

I think this article does a pretty god job of trying to illustrate the viewpoint that reverse racism is not a thing: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/15/884649/-Why-there-s-no-such-thing-as-Reverse-Racism#

cupcait927 · November 2014

pinkrevenge said:

I haven't even read the back pages, so I fail to see how I personally insulted anyone. But okay, I took my anger farther than I should have, and that wasn't fair.

You called people who don't agree with you "garbage" and "shitty" and for someone to make a list of all the posters that you believe fit that definition. That's pretty damn insulting. You're entitled to your opinion just as much as everyone else is. No one who disagreed with you took it that far and called you shitty. I'm glad you agree that it wasn't fair but you certainly insulted people.

QueerFemme · November 2014

I know it's hard for a lot of white people to wrap their heads around the whole "bad cop" comments. I It's hard for folks that have cops as friends and family members, because sometimes, they feel like they are being attacked or individually being called racist.

I think it's important to recognize that it's not really "a cop" who is bad or good, but the institution itself. It's next to impossible for any individual person who gets involved with the institution to not be succumbed by it. In order to operate within the institution, you have to get on board with it. If you don't, you don't succeed. I know there are many good individuals who would like to think they would have never done what Darren Wilson did. And you know, they might not have. But, law enforcement is set up to persecute people of color, from "stop and frisk" laws, to unjust sentencing. It's just society and the "justice system" as a whole that is set up to continue this destruction.

sarawifenow · November 2014

QueerFemme said:

I know it's hard for a lot of white people to wrap their heads around the whole "bad cop" comments. I It's hard for folks that have cops as friends and family members, because sometimes, they feel like they are being attacked or individually being called racist.

I think it's important to recognize that it's not really "a cop" who is bad or good, but the institution itself. It's next to impossible for any individual person who gets involved with the institution to not be succumbed by it. In order to operate within the institution, you have to get on board with it. If you don't, you don't succeed. I know there are many good individuals who would like to think they would have never done what Darren Wilson did. And you know, they might not have. But, law enforcement is set up to persecute people of color, from "stop and frisk" laws, to unjust sentencing. It's just society and the "justice system" as a whole that is set up to continue this destruction.

So only white people don't agree with bad cop comments?

QueerFemme · November 2014

sarawifenow said:

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

QueerFemme said:

sarawifenow said:

I also have the very unpopular opinion in this case. I won't go into it.

I agree with @sarahufl--the fact that Michael Brown lost his life that day is tragic. Loss of life is always a tragedy IMO.

I grew up in a community where I, a white person, was the minority and have been on the opposite end of racism. It is a terrible feeling and I hate racism across the board.

My family is a family of law enforcement. DH is in law enforcement. The outpouring of "cop hate" has been making me really sick to my stomach over the last several months. I can't even go onto my facebook this morning because it is just flooded. I think people have the right to be angry. I do not think people have the right to loot and hurt their community. All this hate (across all spectrums) really gets to me and hurts my heart.

Ok, that is all I am going to say about this.

You have never, ever, ever, ever, been on the opposite end of racism. You may have been on the end of prejudiced and judgement, but racism exists within a power structure. If you are white, you own the power structure. There is no such thing as reverse racism. It does not exist.

Do not tell me what I have and have not experienced. You have no idea and it is inappropriate. That would be like you telling me what you have experienced FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE and then me telling you that you have never, ever *insert unnecessary use of "ever" to prove a point* experienced it.

ETA:
Here is the definition of racism:
rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"

This isn't an issue from my perspective. It's fact. Racism in the UNITED STATES (and most other countries) is perpetrated against people of color. White people have the power. People of color don't. Racism is the perpetuation of power and domination. Living in a mostly black community as a white person did not cause you to not be able to get a job, or housing, or get profiled by police, or having a child that you knew might end up dead at the hands of police. Having white privilege means being able to walk away from "racism" whenever you feel like it.

Being in a black community, you may have stood out like a sore thumb, and maybe people didn't like you, but you were not systematically oppressed. You can claim reverse racism all you want, it doesn't make it true.

I find it very interesting that you assume I was talking about living in a black community. Never once did I say what color the people in my community were....

ok. let me rephrase. As a white person, it doesn't matter if you were in a black, latino, asian, middle eastern, etc. etc. etc. community. If you are white, which you stated you are, you did not suffer from racism. Because white people possess the power in this, and most countries. So, whatever community you lived in, where you were the minority, you still didn't suffer from opposite or reverse racism. It's not a thing.

[Deleted User] · November 2014

QueerFemme · November 2014

sarawifenow said:

QueerFemme said:

I know it's hard for a lot of white people to wrap their heads around the whole "bad cop" comments. I It's hard for folks that have cops as friends and family members, because sometimes, they feel like they are being attacked or individually being called racist.

I think it's important to recognize that it's not really "a cop" who is bad or good, but the institution itself. It's next to impossible for any individual person who gets involved with the institution to not be succumbed by it. In order to operate within the institution, you have to get on board with it. If you don't, you don't succeed. I know there are many good individuals who would like to think they would have never done what Darren Wilson did. And you know, they might not have. But, law enforcement is set up to persecute people of color, from "stop and frisk" laws, to unjust sentencing. It's just society and the "justice system" as a whole that is set up to continue this destruction.

So only white people don't agree with bad cop comments?

No. But, based on a very unscientific survey, the people who think that cops are there for justice and it's just one bad apple, are disproportionately white. You don't see a lot of black parents having conversations with their kid about how cops are there to help us. They more often have conversations with their kids about how to avoid getting shot if they encounter law enforcement.

Sugargirl1019 · November 2014

sarawifenow said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

I'm sorry that I came back to this thread.

pinkrevenge said:

Maggie0829 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion. And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.

Let me be specific then:

Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

How's that?

I am highly offended that because people have a differing opinion than you, you decide to call them garbage. That is beyond ridiculous.

I think that the cop was doing what he had to do. The kid was trying to attack him. Why does this make me garbage? Shoud I believe that the police officer should have just taken a beating?

Calling people garbage because they have a different opinion than you is classless and tacky and I am really surprised that you would say something like that because I generally agree with your posts.

--------------- there are no boxes here! -------------------------------------

I feel like I have been targeted, too. I have been called ignorant, stupid, idiot, garbage - apparently because I grew up differently and had a different opinion on how to handle this. I DID offer a way to change things in the Ferguson area only, not the nation's police force problem. Instead of my idea being heard and noted as a future possibility for change, I was called ignorant and stupid and uneducated and privileged because "peaceful protests didn't work". I feel that people in this thread are bullying and shaming those who grew up differently and cannot understand 100% why the citizens of Ferguson are rioting. I also feel that they are discounting any ideas to change things, just yelling "nothings been done, nothing worked, let them riot, god you're an idiot for even THINKING that's an option for change, you don't understand."

I have heard many of the voices here on this thread. And yes, I have been enlightened. But if you don't think an idea is fabulous, you should calmly and respectfully say why it's not a fabulous idea, rather than calling us names.

You are our Knottie buddies, and we know we have different opinions. But you are chasing us away with your deragatory name calling.

A quote from the Brown family: Let's not just make noise, let's make a difference.

Any ideas to help change their situation, their perception, should be welcome.

Regarding the rioting -
"Opinions are not needed in this time, only prayers."

All right, come at me ladies with your angry comments that I don't know anything and am showing my white privilege (which apparently is very shameful to have grown up this way).

l9i · November 2014

ChemFanatic25 said:

l9i said:

theycallmelinz said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

l9i said:

Genuine question and most likely a little off topic. For those that are heavily against this and mentioning police shooting unarmed people, are you generally for higher gun regulation?
Not wanting to get into a whole other debate I was just curious whether the two things could be correlated. My theory is those against the officer are for more gun restriction and those for the officer are not.

I am for higher gun regulation but not for this reason. It's because of the school shootings and how easily people can get a hold of a gun. There are so many people who have properly registered their guns and are completely responsible and even if we have higher gun regulation, they will more than likely follow those rules. It's the irresponsible people who will not.

Now I truly believe, banishment of firearms will not salvage this country. I believe that many people who went through with the shootings had mental illness or depression. Many of them didn't see therapists or psychiatrists. I believe that we as a country need to start recognizing that mental health is just as important as physical health and that we can start there to really address the problem of so many people suffering.

Totally agree with this. More gun regulation is only going to affect those that actually follow the rules. And as someone who works in the mental health field, I agree that it doesn't get enough attention, especially when it concerns helping those with mental illness rather than stigmatzing them.

I agree with you both to an extent. My thoughts are more restriction, but also more trained personel that have the potential to minimize violent situations (such as school shootings).
I was just curious because many people fixate on the "he should have used a taser" or just generally there aren't any situations were someone should be shot. I have a few friends who are along these lines and also very "no one should own a gun". Like I said, just curious!

But we should be addressing the issue before it even gets to that point. It should never get to that point. Yes, we should minimize the possibility of more people being killed by guns but (and I am not an expert on this) I have read about the different people who started the school shootings and many of them were bullied, depressed, suicidal. We need to start there. We need to stop the bullying, help those who are depressed, and address those who are suicidal and will cause harm to themselves. We need to get to the root of the problem not just cover it in a blanket and address the "easier issue" which is gun control.

@ChemFanatic25

Agreed! I was simply sticking just to the regulation part... Yes, mental health awareness is incredibly important and get help identify and mitigate problems before becoming full-blown problems.

[Deleted User] · November 2014

QueerFemme · November 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

I'm sorry that I came back to this thread.

pinkrevenge said:

Maggie0829 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion. And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.

Let me be specific then:

Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

How's that?

I am highly offended that because people have a differing opinion than you, you decide to call them garbage. That is beyond ridiculous.

I think that the cop was doing what he had to do. The kid was trying to attack him. Why does this make me garbage? Shoud I believe that the police officer should have just taken a beating?

Calling people garbage because they have a different opinion than you is classless and tacky and I am really surprised that you would say something like that because I generally agree with your posts.
--------------- there are no boxes here! ------------------------------------- I feel like I have been targeted, too. I have been called ignorant, stupid, idiot, garbage - apparently because I grew up differently and had a different opinion on how to handle this. I DID offer a way to change things in the Ferguson area only, not the nation's police force problem. Instead of my idea being heard and noted as a future possibility for change, I was called ignorant and stupid and uneducated and privileged because "peaceful protests didn't work". I feel that people in this thread are bullying and shaming those who grew up differently and cannot understand 100% why the citizens of Ferguson are rioting. I also feel that they are discounting any ideas to change things, just yelling "nothings been done, nothing worked, let them riot, god you're an idiot for even THINKING that's an option for change, you don't understand." I have heard many of the voices here on this thread. And yes, I have been enlightened. But if you don't think an idea is fabulous, you should calmly and respectfully say why it's not a fabulous idea, rather than calling us names. You are our Knottie buddies, and we know we have different opinions. But you are chasing us away with your deragatory name calling. A quote from the Brown family: Let's not just make noise, let's make a difference. Any ideas to help change their situation, their perception, should be welcome. Regarding the rioting - "Opinions are not needed in this time, only prayers." All right, come at me ladies with your angry comments that I don't know anything and am showing my white privilege (which apparently is very shameful to have grown up this way).

I don't think it's shameful to have grown up with white privilege. I think it's shameful to perpetuate it by not getting educated when people grown up.

If anyone cares to educate themselves on why people in Ferguson and all over the country are sick of non-violent and peaceful, quiet, holding a candle while marching on the sidewalk, style protests, Tim Wise is a good place to start.

http://speakoutnow.org/userdata_display.php?modin=50&uid=156

Sugargirl1019 · November 2014

pinkrevenge said:
You do have white privilege. All of us white people do.

But if you don't want to correct it than it's not worth "coming at you" or whatever.

How do I correct my "white privilege?" Do I need to move to Ferguson? Do I need to yell at my parents for raising me with money and food on the table at every meal? Look, I'm sorry not sorry I grew up the way I did. But you are implying that I am being racist and rude and condescending because I am white, and that is just not the case. I do not believe I ever said anything racist. So I feel hurt by your hatred of me.

kat1114 · November 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

I'm sorry that I came back to this thread.

pinkrevenge said:

Maggie0829 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion. And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.

Let me be specific then:

Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

How's that?

I am highly offended that because people have a differing opinion than you, you decide to call them garbage. That is beyond ridiculous.

I think that the cop was doing what he had to do. The kid was trying to attack him. Why does this make me garbage? Shoud I believe that the police officer should have just taken a beating?

Calling people garbage because they have a different opinion than you is classless and tacky and I am really surprised that you would say something like that because I generally agree with your posts.
--------------- there are no boxes here! ------------------------------------- I feel like I have been targeted, too. I have been called ignorant, stupid, idiot, garbage - apparently because I grew up differently and had a different opinion on how to handle this. I DID offer a way to change things in the Ferguson area only, not the nation's police force problem. Instead of my idea being heard and noted as a future possibility for change, I was called ignorant and stupid and uneducated and privileged because "peaceful protests didn't work". I feel that people in this thread are bullying and shaming those who grew up differently and cannot understand 100% why the citizens of Ferguson are rioting. I also feel that they are discounting any ideas to change things, just yelling "nothings been done, nothing worked, let them riot, god you're an idiot for even THINKING that's an option for change, you don't understand." I have heard many of the voices here on this thread. And yes, I have been enlightened. But if you don't think an idea is fabulous, you should calmly and respectfully say why it's not a fabulous idea, rather than calling us names. You are our Knottie buddies, and we know we have different opinions. But you are chasing us away with your deragatory name calling. A quote from the Brown family: Let's not just make noise, let's make a difference. Any ideas to help change their situation, their perception, should be welcome. Regarding the rioting - "Opinions are not needed in this time, only prayers." All right, come at me ladies with your angry comments that I don't know anything and am showing my white privilege (which apparently is very shameful to have grown up this way).

I am open to hearing everyone's viewpoints because that's how debate works and how change is ultimately affected. But it is really hard to take you seriously when you say things like "Aspire to apply to the police academy, make it through and graduate, and become a part of your towns police force and be the CHANGE you want to see"

Comments like that make it clear that you truly don't understand that the problem here is that our law enforcement and justice systems discriminate against people with color. Getting minorities involved in the police departments isn't going to change things. Laws need to be changed, use of force policies need to be reviewed/re-written, more training needs to happen, etc.

But most importantly, there needs to be a change in the way that the majority of our society views minorities, particularly those who have power. Sure, violent protests are not the answer. But to make naive suggestions like you have, it really trivializes the issues here.

ETA: There's nothing wrong with growing up with white privilege, nor is it something to feel shameful over. But don't trivialize and gloss over issues that you don't understand.

sarawifenow · November 2014

I have learned a lot of things today from this threas.

1.) It is not ok to have an unpopular opinion without being told that your experience/opinion is wrong/there is no way for it to exist.

2.) You are garbage if you don't think the same way as the masses.

You know what? If my H (who is a cop) had somebody attacking him, I would hope he would defend himself. Can anbody honestly tell me that they would just sit there and let someone attack them physically?

southernbelle0915 · November 2014

@Sugargirl1019
All right, come at me ladies with your angry comments that I don't know anything and am showing my white privilege (which apparently is very shameful to have grown up this way).

I'm not going to "come at you" whatever that means... but I will address your comment. You shouldn't be ashamed of being white. That's not what anyone is saying (or at least I would certainly hope not).

It's about awareness. It's about recognizing the advantage you have being white. I didn't truly understand white privilege was until I was in college. Unless someone explains the concept, the history behind it and there's open conversation about it, how would you know?

No one is expecting you to know everything. It's not shameful to be white. It's not shameful to not know (necessarily). The only thing that would be shameful is if you know about it, take it for granted, and blow it off.

[Deleted User] · November 2014

Fran1985 · November 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

I'm sorry that I came back to this thread.

pinkrevenge said:

Maggie0829 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.
The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion. And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.
Let me be specific then:

Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

How's that?

I am highly offended that because people have a differing opinion than you, you decide to call them garbage. That is beyond ridiculous.

I think that the cop was doing what he had to do. The kid was trying to attack him. Why does this make me garbage? Shoud I believe that the police officer should have just taken a beating?

Calling people garbage because they have a different opinion than you is classless and tacky and I am really surprised that you would say something like that because I generally agree with your posts.
--------------- there are no boxes here! ------------------------------------- I feel like I have been targeted, too. I have been called ignorant, stupid, idiot, garbage - apparently because I grew up differently and had a different opinion on how to handle this. I DID offer a way to change things in the Ferguson area only, not the nation's police force problem. Instead of my idea being heard and noted as a future possibility for change, I was called ignorant and stupid and uneducated and privileged because "peaceful protests didn't work". I feel that people in this thread are bullying and shaming those who grew up differently and cannot understand 100% why the citizens of Ferguson are rioting. I also feel that they are discounting any ideas to change things, just yelling "nothings been done, nothing worked, let them riot, god you're an idiot for even THINKING that's an option for change, you don't understand." I have heard many of the voices here on this thread. And yes, I have been enlightened. But if you don't think an idea is fabulous, you should calmly and respectfully say why it's not a fabulous idea, rather than calling us names. You are our Knottie buddies, and we know we have different opinions. But you are chasing us away with your deragatory name calling. A quote from the Brown family: Let's not just make noise, let's make a difference. Any ideas to help change their situation, their perception, should be welcome. Regarding the rioting - "Opinions are not needed in this time, only prayers." All right, come at me ladies with your angry comments that I don't know anything and am showing my white privilege (which apparently is very shameful to have grown up this way).

No one is being targeted because of how they grew up. I grew up in a mostly white town. But I take the time to read and talk to people and understand that other people don't grow up with the same benefits I did. I am not saying I am perfect or have totally fixed myself- but we all (any race) have to question how we grew up and how it effects our world view. This year a cop was indited for shooting and killing a white teenager who was armed with a screwdriver and threatening to kill his mom in a hostage situation. No two crimes are directly comparable but we have to at least start asking questions- why the two different outcomes? What does it mean for our society?

Privilege is a great thing to have. Serious, not sarcastic. But its like being born rich. You need to recognize you are rich. It doesn't mean you have to give away all your money, it means you have to be able to look around you and realize "hey, I realize other people weren't born rich. I got a headstart on a lot of things." And then when you see tangible ways you can help, you do that.

theycallmelinz · November 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

You do have white privilege. All of us white people do.

But if you don't want to correct it than it's not worth "coming at you" or whatever.
How do I correct my "white privilege?" Do I need to move to Ferguson? Do I need to yell at my parents for raising me with money and food on the table at every meal? Look, I'm sorry not sorry I grew up the way I did. But you are implying that I am being racist and rude and condescending because I am white, and that is just not the case. I do not believe I ever said anything racist. So I feel hurt by your hatred of me.

I'm white and I think I only understand this because I work mostly with black families. White privilege means that it's much easier for us to do something than it would be for a person of color in our country. I see kids through the court system, and in the beginning I was preaching to them that they needed to be the change they want to see, stop hating on cops and be a better person, etc. But for kids that grow up in communities like this, where they experience prejudice in every-day life, it's not that easy. It's much easier for you and I with our college degrees to say "Go to college!! Be better!!" But for a kid that isn't even sure if he will get to eat dinner tonight, or if that cop he sees around the corner is looking for a kid to harass (whether that's the cop's intentions or not), it's very very hard to imagine themselves going to college and joining forces with 'the enemy'. I don't think they're(PPs) calling you racist, they're just saying it's naive and ignorant to assume that it's just as easy for a person of color to obtain the same situation in life as you have.

QueerFemme · November 2014

Sugargirl1019 said:

You do have white privilege. All of us white people do.

But if you don't want to correct it than it's not worth "coming at you" or whatever.
How do I correct my "white privilege?" Do I need to move to Ferguson? Do I need to yell at my parents for raising me with money and food on the table at every meal? Look, I'm sorry not sorry I grew up the way I did. But you are implying that I am being racist and rude and condescending because I am white, and that is just not the case. I do not believe I ever said anything racist. So I feel hurt by your hatred of me.

You can't really correct white privilege. It's the fabric of our society and what this country is based on. But, you can educate yourself and start doing things differently. No, you don't have to move to Ferguson. But, you can go there, or read about the history of police brutality there. You can speak truth to power when the opportunity presents itself. You can learn why the black community is beyond upset. You can read other news outlets, like Al Jazeera and lots of other options that don't present stories in the same white washed way that CNN and most other media outlets do.

You can start reading about the history of the black panther movement. You can watch the CoIntelPro documentary. When you really learn about the systemic oppression of people of color, and I mean, REALLY learn, not just "oh it's so sad that black people were slaves at one time" sort of oppression, you start to actually address your privilege and the privilege of others.

Once you see, you can't unsee.

Sugargirl1019 · November 2014

kat1114 said:

Sugargirl1019 said:

sarawifenow said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

I'm sorry that I came back to this thread.

pinkrevenge said:

Maggie0829 said:

pinkrevenge said:

I really don't want to read garbage posts from garbage people. Too mad.

Can someone just make a list of everyone who sucked in this thread so I can avoid them in the future? Thanks.

The people who "suck" or are "garbage" is a matter of opinion. And I think completely discounting someone's opinion because it doesn't align with yours is what causes some of the problems that we face in our country.

Let me be specific then:

Anyone who defended the cop, the shit decision, thinks black people are wrongfully upset, point out the irrelevant gas station theft the cop didn't know about, make comments based entirely on the veil of white privilege, or think white allies are being too PC or SJWs.

How's that?

I am highly offended that because people have a differing opinion than you, you decide to call them garbage. That is beyond ridiculous.

I think that the cop was doing what he had to do. The kid was trying to attack him. Why does this make me garbage? Shoud I believe that the police officer should have just taken a beating?

Calling people garbage because they have a different opinion than you is classless and tacky and I am really surprised that you would say something like that because I generally agree with your posts.

--------------- there are no boxes here! -------------------------------------

I feel like I have been targeted, too. I have been called ignorant, stupid, idiot, garbage - apparently because I grew up differently and had a different opinion on how to handle this. I DID offer a way to change things in the Ferguson area only, not the nation's police force problem. Instead of my idea being heard and noted as a future possibility for change, I was called ignorant and stupid and uneducated and privileged because "peaceful protests didn't work". I feel that people in this thread are bullying and shaming those who grew up differently and cannot understand 100% why the citizens of Ferguson are rioting. I also feel that they are discounting any ideas to change things, just yelling "nothings been done, nothing worked, let them riot, god you're an idiot for even THINKING that's an option for change, you don't understand."

I have heard many of the voices here on this thread. And yes, I have been enlightened. But if you don't think an idea is fabulous, you should calmly and respectfully say why it's not a fabulous idea, rather than calling us names.

You are our Knottie buddies, and we know we have different opinions. But you are chasing us away with your deragatory name calling.

A quote from the Brown family: Let's not just make noise, let's make a difference.

Any ideas to help change their situation, their perception, should be welcome.

Regarding the rioting -
"Opinions are not needed in this time, only prayers."

All right, come at me ladies with your angry comments that I don't know anything and am showing my white privilege (which apparently is very shameful to have grown up this way).

I am open to hearing everyone's viewpoints because that's how debate works and how change is ultimately affected. But it is really hard to take you seriously when you say things like "Aspire to apply to the police academy, make it through and graduate, and become a part of your towns police force and be the CHANGE you want to see"

Comments like that make it clear that you truly don't understand that the problem here is that our law enforcement and justice systems discriminate against people with color. Getting minorities involved in the police departments isn't going to change things. Laws need to be changed, use of force policies need to be reviewed/re-written, more training needs to happen, etc.

But most importantly, there needs to be a change in the way that the majority of our society views minorities, particularly those who have power. Sure, violent protests are not the answer. But to make naive suggestions like you have, it really trivializes the issues here.

-------------------my phone eats boxes-------------------------------------

We will agree to disagree, a little. I do hear what you're saying, that the institution needs to be changed. Absolutely. Maybe my idea is a possibility later on in the future, after laws have been changed. Because you're right, the way majority views minority needs to change. So it's an idea to help promote that in the future. And I do understand that my idea, though trivializing the issues (which is not my intention), is only to the Ferguson area. I know this problem is nationwide and the people of Ferguson cannot fix it because it is such a huge complicated issue.

So, not a possibility now, maybe one day in the future when we get these laws fixed.

Hope.

Ferguson

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