Do you find the bouquet toss offensive?

Jen4948 · May 2017

charlotte989875 said:

I agree with @JediElizabeth; there's definitely a strain of "oh this again, why don't you just read the pinned pos" when there is a common etiquette question. It's not like there are dozens of completely new, unique etiquette questions springing up daily. I'm not saying we sugar-coat and endorse poor etiquette, but there is definitely a better (and more welcoming) way to respond then "why didn't you just read this other thing".

I agree too.

Yes, it can get annoying to see old threads and topics crop up again and again, especially when there are sticky threads about them, but at the same time, it does seem like some of us regulars overreact when posters reopen old threads or when new posters bring up heavily-discussed topics and give replies with harsher tones than are really called for. I admit to responding more harshly at times than is probably warranted by the actual post.

I don't think there's any intention to "single anyone out" so much as to say, "Yes, it's old and annoying when someone brings this up again, but the person responsible didn't do it to annoy you on purpose."

And even when someone proposes something that we know to be an etiquette violation or something that seems impractical, they are not always coming from a bad place -- just one of not knowing. If, for example, every wedding that you (generic) have ever attended had a cash bar, or you receive wedding invitations that contain non-traditional wording or registry information, you might not realize that it's non-traditional or inappropriate respectively until someone points it out, which might not happen until you ask about it in this forum. I think that simply telling someone "Don't have a cash bar, it's an etiquette violation" is going to go over much better than "Grow up/Be an adult and pay for the alcohol yourself" as an initial response to someone's suggesting that they want a cash bar.

MairePoppy · May 2017

charlotte989875 said:

I agree with @JediElizabeth; there's definitely a strain of "oh this again, why don't you just read the pinned pos" when there is a common etiquette question. It's not like there are dozens of completely new, unique etiquette questions springing up daily. I'm not saying we sugar-coat and endorse poor etiquette, but there is definitely a better (and more welcoming) way to respond then "why didn't you just read this other thing".

Yep. No one is obligated to respond. If you don't want to say something for the 100th time, just skip the thread. Someone else will take up the cause of good etiquette.

One the other hand, if you want to help out, sometimes hearing the same basic advice from ten different community members, in ten different styles, reinforces the idea. I think it's fine to throw in your two cents, even if it's already been said.

I don't agree that the boards are super harsh. They are mild compared to what they were years ago. When I first joined the community, I was called out for resurrecting zombies, incorrect punctuation, and giving cookie cutter advice. But I didn't melt like a snowflake.

ernursej · May 2017

When I first arrived, the boards were really harsh. I feel like they have actually mellowed in the last few years. I'm much more of an active poster than when I first joined and I find most people respond appropriately to threads.

I think there is a fine line between telling people the truth and being snotty about it. I've been trying very hard to not cross that line but I do think I've crossed it a few times.

ei34 · May 2017

I agree that the tone has softened a bit over the last couple years. The biggest thing that stood out to me back around 2012-13 was that there seemed to be a handful of regs whose word was final...everyone else seemed to just follow along, or else. They're not really around anymore, and I like that regs now agree and disagree more. More dialogue.

A knot pet peeve is definitely when someone responds with "just search the boards this gets asked all the time". Just don't answer if you don't feel like answering again

DrillSergeantCat · May 2017

I see all the time where people are asked not to resurrect zombie threads. I don't see what CMGragain did wrong here. The person she said it to has been a member for 8 years and should very well know better. As for being told to search the boards, I've never seen anyone told that here although it's super common on the bump.

levioosa · May 2017

Compared to what the boards used to be, we're downright rainbows and puppies now. I also think that the same people who are going to be all "it's my day and I don't care what you think!" are the same people who are going to be that way regardless of delivery from posters here.

OurWildKingdom · May 2017

levioosa said:

Compared to what the boards used to be, we're downright rainbows and puppies now. I also think that the same people who are going to be all "it's my day and I don't care what you think!" are the same people who are going to be that way regardless of delivery from posters here.

Maybe so, but I think some of us (I'm among them) could still stand to be more tactful. Personally, I need to be more careful about posting when I'm in a bad mood about something else, because I'll take my irritation out on the third person in as many days who tries to justify their PPD.

kahluakoala · May 2017

Can I just say I'm really over the "special snowflake" thing? I get what they're trying to say, and I agree that "your situation is not different such that it warrants bad etiquette", but I hear it used in so many political type situations by right wing pundits to single out people who have the audacity to, you know, want health insurance, or not experience undue police violence, that the phrase just really makes my skin crawl. I can't be alone here?

JediElizabeth · May 2017

OurWildKingdom said:

levioosa said:

Compared to what the boards used to be, we're downright rainbows and puppies now. I also think that the same people who are going to be all "it's my day and I don't care what you think!" are the same people who are going to be that way regardless of delivery from posters here.

Maybe so, but I think some of us (I'm among them) could still stand to be more tactful. Personally, I need to be more careful about posting when I'm in a bad mood about something else, because I'll take my irritation out on the third person in as many days who tries to justify their PPD.

Agreed. I don't think that the fact that TK used to be more harsh is a reason to excuse snide and snarky communication now. It may be ok to communicate in a certain way, and it may even be better than it used to be, but that's not an argument that will keep new people from leaving.

I'm personally trying to be more conscious of my posts. Everyone has to make that decision themselves though.

short+sassy · May 2017

I think, for me, the difference is often the "tone" of a post. I've often seen posts that, although they were giving proper etiquette advice, it was done with a "steel hand" instead of a "velvet glove". I'm definitely not saying I'm perfect! I try to correct the potential etiquette blunder and explain why that piece of etiquette exists. But do all of that kindly and in an informative way.

OurWildKingdom · May 2017

KahluaKoala said:

Can I just say I'm really over the "special snowflake" thing? I get what they're trying to say, and I agree that "your situation is not different such that it warrants bad etiquette", but I hear it used in so many political type situations by right wing pundits to single out people who have the audacity to, you know, want health insurance, or not experience undue police violence, that the phrase just really makes my skin crawl. I can't be alone here?

Word. I'm over it too.

ei34 · May 2017

OurWildKingdom said:

KahluaKoala said:

Can I just say I'm really over the "special snowflake" thing? I get what they're trying to say, and I agree that "your situation is not different such that it warrants bad etiquette", but I hear it used in so many political type situations by right wing pundits to single out people who have the audacity to, you know, want health insurance, or not experience undue police violence, that the phrase just really makes my skin crawl. I can't be alone here?

Word. I'm over it too.

When I heard pundits (and subsequently, obnoxious Facebook commenters) using it, I was like "hey! That's a Knot phrase! Annnd you're misspelling special!" (Since we say speshul

)

CMGragain · May 2017

DD told me that "special snowflake" is no longer politically correct, and has racist overtones, but she couldn't explain why. Anybody know what she means?

If "special snowflake" is out, what do we use instead for people who think the rules do not apply to them?

Jen4948 · May 2017

CMGragain said:

DD told me that "special snowflake" is no longer politically correct, and has racist overtones, but she couldn't explain why. Anybody know what she means?

If "special snowflake" is out, what do we use instead for people who think the rules do not apply to them?

People who think the rules do not apply to them.

CMGragain · May 2017

Aw. That's no fun!

kahluakoala · May 2017

CMGragain said:

DD told me that "special snowflake" is no longer politically correct, and has racist overtones, but she couldn't explain why. Anybody know what she means?

If "special snowflake" is out, what do we use instead for people who think the rules do not apply to them?

Hmm, try googling the Tomi Lahren "You might be a snowflake if" video. I don't want to look it up and link to it, but it's basically a extreme right wing way to insult people for politically correct beliefs. Like, someone is a snowflake because they're offended by a racist slur. They might say something along hte lines of "oh this special snowflake needs a safe space".

I honestly never liked the phrase or found it cute

charlotte989875 · May 2017

CMGragain said:

DD told me that "special snowflake" is no longer politically correct, and has racist overtones, but she couldn't explain why. Anybody know what she means?

If "special snowflake" is out, what do we use instead for people who think the rules do not apply to them?

Special snowflake has been used to denigrate people who need accommodations and safe spaces on college campuses saying they "can't handle" controversial or uncomfortable information or material. It had also been used toward people who have been critical of the Trump administration especially people who protested or have spoken out about policies affecting women, immigrants, and people of color. Generally it's been used to put down people who are speaking out against social, racial, political injustices.

kwiksilver · May 2017

charlotte989875 said:

CMGragain said:

DD told me that "special snowflake" is no longer politically correct, and has racist overtones, but she couldn't explain why. Anybody know what she means?

If "special snowflake" is out, what do we use instead for people who think the rules do not apply to them?

Special snowflake has been used to denigrate people who need accommodations and safe spaces on college campuses saying they "can't handle" controversial or uncomfortable information or material. It had also been used toward people who have been critical of the Trump administration especially people who protested or have spoken out about policies affecting women, immigrants, and people of color. Generally it's been used to put down people who are speaking out against social, racial, political injustices.

I see it all the time up here in Canada, used by conservatives to insult/describe liberals. As you mentioned, usually in reference to safe spaces, political correctness, and "hippies/tree-huggers" or "Millenials".

It definitely carries a more political connotation than it used to. I don't know about racist, but it's definitely been adopted by the far right, so I guess it *could* have racist overtones in that regard.

MobKaz · May 2017

charlotte989875 said:

CMGragain said:

DD told me that "special snowflake" is no longer politically correct, and has racist overtones, but she couldn't explain why. Anybody know what she means?

If "special snowflake" is out, what do we use instead for people who think the rules do not apply to them?

Special snowflake has been used to denigrate people who need accommodations and safe spaces on college campuses saying they "can't handle" controversial or uncomfortable information or material. It had also been used toward people who have been critical of the Trump administration especially people who protested or have spoken out about policies affecting women, immigrants, and people of color. Generally it's been used to put down people who are speaking out against social, racial, political injustices.

It's been used for many years, and certainly long before the current election. @CMGragain , I do not know the full explanation, but I was told once that this term was actually used during WW2 in some way in regards to the genocide in the concentration camps.

JediElizabeth · May 2017

MobKaz said:

charlotte989875 said:

CMGragain said:

DD told me that "special snowflake" is no longer politically correct, and has racist overtones, but she couldn't explain why. Anybody know what she means?

If "special snowflake" is out, what do we use instead for people who think the rules do not apply to them?

Special snowflake has been used to denigrate people who need accommodations and safe spaces on college campuses saying they "can't handle" controversial or uncomfortable information or material. It had also been used toward people who have been critical of the Trump administration especially people who protested or have spoken out about policies affecting women, immigrants, and people of color. Generally it's been used to put down people who are speaking out against social, racial, political injustices.

It's been used for many years, and certainly long before the current election. @CMGragain , I do not know the full explanation, but I was told once that this term was actually used during WW2 in some way in regards to the genocide in the concentration camps.

This seems unlikely to me...

When I was in grade school (early-mid 90's) we were told that every snowflake is different, and that's what makes it special....and that we were all so special too because we were all different. The modern sarcasm around "special snowflakes" come from that...the the first time I heard it used in a derogatory way was probably on Jezebel sometime around 2010. I was under the impression that it came from snarky mommy communities who were rolling their eyes at other moms, but now that I'm googling etymology, it might have started with Fight Club.

If there's anything racist about it, it's probably because the alt-right loves the term so much. I hate it when bad people ruin fun things.

Jen4948 · May 2017

The first time I heard the term "special snowflake" was in the Etiquette Hell forum. I know that there has been some crossover between that forum and this one.

MissKittyDanger · May 2017

kwiksilver said:

charlotte989875 said:

CMGragain said:

DD told me that "special snowflake" is no longer politically correct, and has racist overtones, but she couldn't explain why. Anybody know what she means?

If "special snowflake" is out, what do we use instead for people who think the rules do not apply to them?

Special snowflake has been used to denigrate people who need accommodations and safe spaces on college campuses saying they "can't handle" controversial or uncomfortable information or material. It had also been used toward people who have been critical of the Trump administration especially people who protested or have spoken out about policies affecting women, immigrants, and people of color. Generally it's been used to put down people who are speaking out against social, racial, political injustices.

I see it all the time up here in Canada, used by conservatives to insult/describe liberals. As you mentioned, usually in reference to safe spaces, political correctness, and "hippies/tree-huggers" or "Millenials".

It definitely carries a more political connotation than it used to. I don't know about racist, but it's definitely been adopted by the far right, so I guess it *could* have racist overtones in that regard.

Usually by the heavy conservatives.

I think some people are thinking it's another word for someone who is disabled also.

short+sassy · May 2017

I'm with @JediElizabeth on the meaning of special snowflake. That was the same idea I always assumed it came from.

And, like @Jen4948, I first heard the term on TK. I only run into it once in awhile outside of this site.

But, while we are on the subject of rude terms some Conservatives use. I get so ragey every time I see one of them use the term "libtard". Really? REALLY?!? Are they actually trying to make their point by using a twist on an incredibly offensive word for people with learning disabilities? Awesome. Just keep on flying that ignorant flag high.

Jen4948 · May 2017

short+sassy said:

I'm with @JediElizabeth on the meaning of special snowflake. That was the same idea I always assumed it came from.
And, like @Jen4948, I first heard the term on TK. I only run into it once in awhile outside of this site.
But, while we are on the subject of rude terms some Conservatives use. I get so ragey every time I see one of them use the term "libtard". Really? REALLY?!? Are they actually trying to make their point by using a twist on an incredibly offensive word for people with learning disabilities? Awesome. Just keep on flying that ignorant flag high.

I agree -- and I also hate other terms that equate "retarded" with "stupid." Ninety-nine percent of people who use those terms have less intelligence than people with genuine mental deficiencies.

OwningAHome1981 · June 2017

If someone has something to say that can help someone why does it matter how old a thread is? if it can't help the OP maybe it can help someone else. Ever think maybe the problem isn't me digging up old threads but that you are getting so annoyed easily by it. WHO GIVES A HOOT? If I see something I don't like, I move on with my life. I don't call people out on it.

DrillSergeantCat · June 2017

OwningAHome1981 said:

If someone has something to say that can help someone why does it matter how old a thread is? if it can't help the OP maybe it can help someone else. Ever think maybe the problem isn't me digging up old threads but that you are getting so annoyed easily by it. WHO GIVES A HOOT? If I see something I don't like, I move on with my life. I don't call people out on it.

You've been told why on another thread.

southernbelle0915 · June 2017

OwningAHome1981 said:

If someone has something to say that can help someone why does it matter how old a thread is? if it can't help the OP maybe it can help someone else. Ever think maybe the problem isn't me digging up old threads but that you are getting so annoyed easily by it. WHO GIVES A HOOT? If I see something I don't like, I move on with my life. I don't call people out on it.

People have varying tolerance. For some, anything a month old is "too old" and for others, they don't care if a year old thread gets resurrected. But there are actual community guidelines on this, like how old a thread is before it is officially considered "zombie" and gets closed. If TK could get their tech shit together and just auto-close things that reached zombie status, this wouldn't even be a discussion. But alas....

To reply to your question though, we post all the time for lurkers - you're right. But relevance matters too. If someone has an opinion on something they see from ages ago, start a new, fresh discussion. That way, people aren't responding with advice for people who are long married or quoting people who aren't here anymore.

ETA: I should also add that, despite the actual rules on this and lack of adequate TK tech response on this (yes, auto-close has been discussed), it matters how active the boards are, too. For example, a "non-reg" probably thinks something on the main page is fair game - and I can see why they'd think that. It's on the main page, it's still open...why not comment? For active boards, the main page has stuff from the last few months. For INactive boards, stuff on the main page could be 2 years old.

Personally, I don't get my panties in a twist about this. If it reaches zombie status, we close it (or folks can request to close it). If not, don't comment and let it die a natural death.

short+sassy · June 2017

southernbelle0915 said:

OwningAHome1981 said:

If someone has something to say that can help someone why does it matter how old a thread is? if it can't help the OP maybe it can help someone else. Ever think maybe the problem isn't me digging up old threads but that you are getting so annoyed easily by it. WHO GIVES A HOOT? If I see something I don't like, I move on with my life. I don't call people out on it.

People have varying tolerance. For some, anything a month old is "too old" and for others, they don't care if a year old thread gets resurrected. But there are actual community guidelines on this, like how old a thread is before it is officially considered "zombie" and gets closed. If TK could get their tech shit together and just auto-close things that reached zombie status, this wouldn't even be a discussion. But alas....

To reply to your question though, we post all the time for lurkers - you're right. But relevance matters too. If someone has an opinion on something they see from ages ago, start a new, fresh discussion. That way, people aren't responding with advice for people who are long married or quoting people who aren't here anymore.

That's what I'll go by if I feel like I have good advice for an older post. Is the poster still active? If so and the thread isn't months old, I'll post. Even if I'm "late to the party". But, if it's a poster I don't recognize/doesn't look like they've been on TK recently, I won't bother.

I personally don't care that much about zombie threads, as long as the user bringing it up is legit. But I find zombie threads are often brought up by vendor scammers who use the most gossamer of threads to relate their product to the original post. And then have a link or two in their post somewhere. It's really just comical. (I realize you don't fall into that category, @OwningAHome1981).

CMGragain · June 2017

OwningAHome1981 said:

If someone has something to say that can help someone why does it matter how old a thread is? if it can't help the OP maybe it can help someone else. Ever think maybe the problem isn't me digging up old threads but that you are getting so annoyed easily by it. WHO GIVES A HOOT? If I see something I don't like, I move on with my life. I don't call people out on it.

No one called you out. I politely asked you to stop resurrecting zombie threads. You responded with hostility. I was trying to help you fit in here.

MairePoppy · June 2017

OwningAHome1981 said:

If someone has something to say that can help someone why does it matter how old a thread is? if it can't help the OP maybe it can help someone else. Ever think maybe the problem isn't me digging up old threads but that you are getting so annoyed easily by it. WHO GIVES A HOOT? If I see something I don't like, I move on with my life. I don't call people out on it.

I don't really care about zombie threads, but if someone reports it, I'll close it. In the distant past, threads were automatically closed at 6 months, but, you know about 'the glitches.'

I think we should be gentler with informing new community members to look at thread dates. But, geeze, you've been around a long, long time. Why is this an issue for you? If you were attacked, report it. The moderators and administrators will review your complaint and respond.

If you have helpful information, or want to talk about zombies, why don't you open a new thread and share it with active community members?

Do you find the bouquet toss offensive?

Re: Do you find the bouquet toss offensive?

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