Etiquette

He wants a pre-nup, I feel horrible and insulted.

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Re: He wants a pre-nup, I feel horrible and insulted.

  • RajahBMFD said:
    preloo said:
    KatWAG said:
    preloo said:
    My fiance and I are both young and have modest savings but he owns his own company, and so that is a large asset. He says that he would like a pre-nup which would cover this company's earnings, but nothing after this company (so if he goes onto another company later, that wouldn't be part of it). Some investor of his recommended this, and I can't even tell you how furious I am at this busybody for trying to mess things up. I take this as a direct insult to me, a sign that he doesn't even want to marry me. Divorce is not an option for me, and he knows it- so basically, this prenup is just covering HIS ass in case he wants to leave me for some slutty young secretary years down the road. Men leave women for no reason all the time, and I worry about it a lot since my parents are divorced, so this makes me VERY upset and hurt. I want divorce to be HARD so he can't run out on me easily, and there he goes, making divorce a super-fun easy route with this sh*tty prenup. I don't want to sign it, but more than that, I'm extremely hurt and I feel betrayed. To me this is a sign he doesn't even want to get married. I'm not materialistic and I've never shown that tendency in our 5+ years together. All I want is a marriage that is stable and secure and I feel like a prenup takes that away from me.

    I am sorry but there are so many red flags here. It sounds like you are very insecure in your relationship. Pre-nups arent an insult. They are like insurance, simply being prepared for the worst. If you think there is a chance your fi will "leave you for no reason at all." Run, dont walk, to couples therapy.

    And saying "divorce is not an option" is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. You are saying under no circumstances would you get divorced, and I think that is naive thinking. If your H cheated on you and gave you an STD, you wouldn't consider it? What if he abused you? Or abused your children? What if he raped you? You can honestly say, you would consider divorce?

    I guess divorce is an option for me in those scenarios (although if he gave me an incurable STD I'd probably stay with him out of necessity) but the pre-nup would only protect him, not me, since he's the wealthier party.  So even from a logical standpoint, I don't see why I'd be on board with it.


    Seriously? You would stay with him if he gave you a lethal disease like HIV? Why the hell would you do that?

    Get thee to therapy, ASAP. For your own sake, and the sake of your future marriage.

    Probably because it would be either having HIV with him, or having nobody because dating with HIV is difficult.  Although honestly, I can't even say how I'd feel because it's a hypothetical...I'm just guessing.

    And I should have disclosed this, but I have general anxiety disorder (diagnosed and whatnot).  I am on medication which helps and occasional therapy, but honestly therapy is not some be-all, end-all, because most people cannot afford it.  My insurance doesn't cover it and in the past it has been a huge waste of money for me.
  • preloo said:
    I just used to live in NYC and honestly the stuff I saw wealthy men do made me really sick.  I want to think my fiance isn't like that, but I also didn't think all my friends' dads were like that.
    My FI and I live in NYC and I *know* he is not like this.  I really truly believe that.  Either your FI has acted in a way (prior to the whole pre-nup issue) to make you not trust him, or you simply don't trust him because of your own issues.  So you need to either ask yourself if you really want to marry this man or you need to go to therapy to work on your own issues.

    As far as the pre-nup, I'm not sure how it works but you may be able to put something in there that if the divorce is your fault, you don't get anything, but if the divorce is as a result of his infidelity, you are still entitled to something.
    Honestly it's probably all me and my childhood, he hasn't really done anything to make me think he's like that, but I just worry about money "changing" him since I've seen it happen to other seemingly great men.
  • Just an update- I talked to him about it, and seeing the advice here also helps.  I think I can agree to the prenup because I understand it's pretty routine for business owners.  He reassured me that the stuff I worry about won't happen and while nothing is for sure, I should just trust him.  I've just seen things in my life that make me very wary about all situations/people and I know that's a problem with me, not him.
  • preloo said:
    I feel that it's concerning to see signing a pre-nup as an easy way for him to get out of marriage.  Pre-nups do no such thing, it's just about protecting his business.  You're reading WAAAY too far into this.

    Also, if the fact that your parents are divorced is still bringing up issues, you might want to consider private therapy, in addition to couples therapy.  (That is not meant to be mean, I just know that when I was younger and my parents split, therapy helped me get over it so that it doesn't hurt my current relationships.)
    I don't think it's mean :) the truth is we just can't afford it.  The only reason we're having a wedding instead of eloping is because my parents are paying and even then it's small.  

    There are some resources out there that can give support- without the financial burden of one on one therapy.  I would try to search for support groups in your area.  There might even be a group on meetup for it.

    If the divorce involved a problem drinker, check out Al-Anon.  It's a free resource for families that deal with problem drinkers, and support for those family members.  (I might just be projecting, because alcohol was a catalyst leading to my parent's splitting up.)

    I also found that it was really helpful to look at WHY my parents split.  Looking back, they didn't put their marriage first- which was problem number one; and the other big issue was that they didn't have an open communication channel.  Add alcohol to the mix, and it's not surprising they got divorced.  Just knowing these things, and bringing that knowledge into my current relationship has been enormously helpful.
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  • preloo said:
    KatWAG said:
    preloo said:
    My fiance and I are both young and have modest savings but he owns his own company, and so that is a large asset. He says that he would like a pre-nup which would cover this company's earnings, but nothing after this company (so if he goes onto another company later, that wouldn't be part of it). Some investor of his recommended this, and I can't even tell you how furious I am at this busybody for trying to mess things up. I take this as a direct insult to me, a sign that he doesn't even want to marry me. Divorce is not an option for me, and he knows it- so basically, this prenup is just covering HIS ass in case he wants to leave me for some slutty young secretary years down the road. Men leave women for no reason all the time, and I worry about it a lot since my parents are divorced, so this makes me VERY upset and hurt. I want divorce to be HARD so he can't run out on me easily, and there he goes, making divorce a super-fun easy route with this sh*tty prenup. I don't want to sign it, but more than that, I'm extremely hurt and I feel betrayed. To me this is a sign he doesn't even want to get married. I'm not materialistic and I've never shown that tendency in our 5+ years together. All I want is a marriage that is stable and secure and I feel like a prenup takes that away from me.

    I am sorry but there are so many red flags here. It sounds like you are very insecure in your relationship. Pre-nups arent an insult. They are like insurance, simply being prepared for the worst. If you think there is a chance your fi will "leave you for no reason at all." Run, dont walk, to couples therapy.

    And saying "divorce is not an option" is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. You are saying under no circumstances would you get divorced, and I think that is naive thinking. If your H cheated on you and gave you an STD, you wouldn't consider it? What if he abused you? Or abused your children? What if he raped you? You can honestly say, you would consider divorce?

    I guess divorce is an option for me in those scenarios (although if he gave me an incurable STD I'd probably stay with him out of necessity) but the pre-nup would only protect him, not me, since he's the wealthier party.  So even from a logical standpoint, I don't see why I'd be on board with it.
    As other PPs have said, you don't sign anything without your own lawyer look it over. A prenup will usually (maybe not always though) come with stipulations, such as being together for a certain amount of time, cheating, etc. These stipulations can also protect you if he were to be the reason behind the divorce. 

    I also agree that there is very few things that are more important than mental health and agree with the premarital counseling suggestion. 
  • My fiance and I were actually talking about this yesterday and our feelings on it.  We both have no assets to speak of, so it doesn't apply to us.
    However, you mentioned your fiance owns a business.  I believe it is entirely appropriate for him to ask for a prenup.  I could see where you'd be offended, but think about it like this:  if the tables were turned, you have significant assets, and you divorced, would you want your husband to have rights to the company you started before you were married?

    Don't take it as a sign that he doesn't love you or want to be married - he is simply doing what is BEST for his business and the people who work for him.  It is no indication of his love for you - it's just the way of the world these days.
    preloo
  • InkdancerInkdancer The Shire member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    I am so sorry that you've been hurt enough in your past that you feel that all men could easily cheat on you and leave you. That's a terrible place to be in your head.

    I am glad that you were able to talk to your FI and he could reassure you that he does love you, and that this is just a legal formality.

    However, I am 100% in agreement about getting counseling. Depending on the state you live in, you can possibly even get a discount on your marriage license if you have counseling together. It sounds like you have lots of hurt that you need to talk through, and you need to hear from your FI that he is not like those other people who have left scars. Look into local resources like womens' centers, churches, or community centers-- they often offer counseling for free or for an extremely discounted rate.
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  • lyndausvi said:
    My fiance and I were actually talking about this yesterday and our feelings on it.  We both have no assets to speak of, so it doesn't apply to us.
    However, you mentioned your fiance owns a business.  I believe it is entirely appropriate for him to ask for a prenup.  I could see where you'd be offended, but think about it like this:  if the tables were turned, you have significant assets, and you divorced, would you want your husband to have rights to the company you started before you were married?

    Don't take it as a sign that he doesn't love you or want to be married - he is simply doing what is BEST for his business and the people who work for him.  It is no indication of his love for you - it's just the way of the world these days.
    It's just not HIS assets, but protecting the business as a whole.  Divorce can ruin a business as in employees could lose jobs, investors losing money.    A business owners thinks not only of himself, but that of the business also  (i.e employees and investors).
    Agreed.
  • Pre-marital counseling isn't your solution here. Personal counseling for yourself is. You're clearly still haunted by your parents' divorce and you suffer from serious self-esteem and self-worth issues. Please don't get married until you love yourself enough to realize that the man who commits himself to you in marriage does so because he loves you, too.

    ETA a "pre-nup" is the short-hand term for "pre-nuptial agreement." This is a contract that both parties sign before entering into marriage that includes *whatever* details are important to them in the event of a divorce. Contrary to popular belief, a pre-nup is not simply "Everyone leaves with what they came." That is a common pre-nup agreement, but it's not the only thing that a pre-nup can contain. Your agreement should be tailored to your specific relationship/circumstances
    I got the same vibe here.  I would also like to add onto what I said earlier with the fact that therapy is great but you need to be willing to except the help before it will actually help you.  If you are willing to change yourself then therapy is a waste of time and money...but if you are ready to change you, and make yourself into a better stronger woman, then get your butt into therapy and do it.  Sometimes we as humans can hold ourselve back from acheiving great things!
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  • I just have to say I am personally against prenups, but I can understand why some people would think it's a good idea. In OP's case it's really important for you to both calmly talk it out. Your fiance probably doesn't look at it from your point of view at all so he's coming across as more cold and calculating than he means to be. For a lot of people it's a natural step to take, for others it's crating a bad mentality.

    What this post does is highlight is how important it is for both people to talk about their beliefs before an engagement if possible. My fiance and I did this before the engagement to make sure that we were both on the same page about not wanting a prenuptial agreement. It can be terribly awkward and unhappy to have a talk about a future apart when you have the ring on the finger and you are in the middle of making plans to be together forever. Much less stressful if you know ahead of time what you would both do.

    Good luck
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  • \
    Inkdancer said:
    I am so sorry that you've been hurt enough in your past that you feel that all men could easily cheat on you and leave you. That's a terrible place to be in your head.

    I am glad that you were able to talk to your FI and he could reassure you that he does love you, and that this is just a legal formality.

    However, I am 100% in agreement about getting counseling. Depending on the state you live in, you can possibly even get a discount on your marriage license if you have counseling together. It sounds like you have lots of hurt that you need to talk through, and you need to hear from your FI that he is not like those other people who have left scars. Look into local resources like womens' centers, churches, or community centers-- they often offer counseling for free or for an extremely discounted rate.
    Thanks for not being snarky (The same can't be said for other ladies here, but I've been on the Internet long enough to know that some people will take any chance to take a low blow, lol).  I will look into local resources to see if there is something less expensive.  I suppose I could afford therapy but it would cause financial trouble if I saw a therapist more than a few times a year.  I also live in a city where therapy seems to be ridiculously expensive!  Like $200 per appointment!
  • preloo said:
    I think all men have it in them to cheat and be mindless and leave women for no reason.  I think my fiance is a wonderful man but I think if a supermodel wanted ANY man to leave his wife, he'd do it.  Just being realistic.  
    I encourage you to rethink this belief.  This is sexist and incorrect.  I am sad you think this way.
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  • cruffinocruffino member
    Ninth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited February 2014
    preloo said:
    RajahBMFD said:
    preloo said:
    KatWAG said:
    preloo said:
    My fiance and I are both young and have modest savings but he owns his own company, and so that is a large asset. He says that he would like a pre-nup which would cover this company's earnings, but nothing after this company (so if he goes onto another company later, that wouldn't be part of it). Some investor of his recommended this, and I can't even tell you how furious I am at this busybody for trying to mess things up. I take this as a direct insult to me, a sign that he doesn't even want to marry me. Divorce is not an option for me, and he knows it- so basically, this prenup is just covering HIS ass in case he wants to leave me for some slutty young secretary years down the road. Men leave women for no reason all the time, and I worry about it a lot since my parents are divorced, so this makes me VERY upset and hurt. I want divorce to be HARD so he can't run out on me easily, and there he goes, making divorce a super-fun easy route with this sh*tty prenup. I don't want to sign it, but more than that, I'm extremely hurt and I feel betrayed. To me this is a sign he doesn't even want to get married. I'm not materialistic and I've never shown that tendency in our 5+ years together. All I want is a marriage that is stable and secure and I feel like a prenup takes that away from me.

    I am sorry but there are so many red flags here. It sounds like you are very insecure in your relationship. Pre-nups arent an insult. They are like insurance, simply being prepared for the worst. If you think there is a chance your fi will "leave you for no reason at all." Run, dont walk, to couples therapy.

    And saying "divorce is not an option" is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. You are saying under no circumstances would you get divorced, and I think that is naive thinking. If your H cheated on you and gave you an STD, you wouldn't consider it? What if he abused you? Or abused your children? What if he raped you? You can honestly say, you would consider divorce?

    I guess divorce is an option for me in those scenarios (although if he gave me an incurable STD I'd probably stay with him out of necessity) but the pre-nup would only protect him, not me, since he's the wealthier party.  So even from a logical standpoint, I don't see why I'd be on board with it.


    Seriously? You would stay with him if he gave you a lethal disease like HIV? Why the hell would you do that?

    Get thee to therapy, ASAP. For your own sake, and the sake of your future marriage.

    Probably because it would be either having HIV with him, or having nobody because dating with HIV is difficult.  Although honestly, I can't even say how I'd feel because it's a hypothetical...I'm just guessing.

    And I should have disclosed this, but I have general anxiety disorder (diagnosed and whatnot).  I am on medication which helps and occasional therapy, but honestly therapy is not some be-all, end-all, because most people cannot afford it.  My insurance doesn't cover it and in the past it has been a huge waste of money for me.
    just want to comment on the last bolded, re: your insurance. Obamacare has a provision about parity between physical healthcare and behavioral healthcare, so i think its important that you revisit this issue with your insurance company. my understanding is that its now illegal to NOT cover mental healthcare. 
    TheGrimReaperKittyKaty20[Deleted User]
  • preloo said:
    My fiance and I are both young and have modest savings but he owns his own company, and so that is a large asset. He says that he would like a pre-nup which would cover this company's earnings, but nothing after this company (so if he goes onto another company later, that wouldn't be part of it). Some investor of his recommended this, and I can't even tell you how furious I am at this busybody for trying to mess things up. I take this as a direct insult to me, a sign that he doesn't even want to marry me. Divorce is not an option for me, and he knows it- so basically, this prenup is just covering HIS ass in case he wants to leave me for some slutty young secretary years down the road. Men leave women for no reason all the time, and I worry about it a lot since my parents are divorced, so this makes me VERY upset and hurt. I want divorce to be HARD so he can't run out on me easily, and there he goes, making divorce a super-fun easy route with this sh*tty prenup. I don't want to sign it, but more than that, I'm extremely hurt and I feel betrayed. To me this is a sign he doesn't even want to get married. I'm not materialistic and I've never shown that tendency in our 5+ years together. All I want is a marriage that is stable and secure and I feel like a prenup takes that away from me.
    I do want to add something personal to this, though.
    No offense, but you sound really aggressive.  To say 'divorce is not an option' is a bit naive.  I always said that myself.  My parents have been happily married for 43 years, so I thought I'd never be a divorce statistic, but 3 years into it and I became one and divorced.
    No one can predict the future, so saying it's 'not an option' is a great idea in theory, but you never honestly know what will happen.

    I'm also a little concerned by your tone.  You almost seem to assume he'll leave you for a 'slutty secretary'.  If you truly are having insecurity issues where you feel he's going to run off with someone before you're even married, I would honestly advise you to seek premarital counseling.  Good luck to you!


    I know this is going to sound equally ignorant, but I know and hear of so many depraved women who happily sleep with married men, seek them out, and TRY to ruin marriages that I just don't trust the world.  It's hard to explain, because I guess I do trust him but I feel like every man has his price.  Again, I'm not defending this view because I know it's probably not logical, just letting you know where I'm coming from.  It's ridiculous how many subhuman women specifically go after married men and feel no guilt.  It really makes me sick.
  • preloo said:
    I guess divorce is an option for me in those scenarios (although if he gave me an incurable STD I'd probably stay with him out of necessity) but the pre-nup would only protect him, not me, since he's the wealthier party.  So even from a logical standpoint, I don't see why I'd be on board with it.


    **STUCK IN BOX :(

    But really, I laughed out loud at the bolded.
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  • KatWAGKatWAG Chicago member
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    preloo said:
    \
    Inkdancer said:
    I am so sorry that you've been hurt enough in your past that you feel that all men could easily cheat on you and leave you. That's a terrible place to be in your head.

    I am glad that you were able to talk to your FI and he could reassure you that he does love you, and that this is just a legal formality.

    However, I am 100% in agreement about getting counseling. Depending on the state you live in, you can possibly even get a discount on your marriage license if you have counseling together. It sounds like you have lots of hurt that you need to talk through, and you need to hear from your FI that he is not like those other people who have left scars. Look into local resources like womens' centers, churches, or community centers-- they often offer counseling for free or for an extremely discounted rate.
    Thanks for not being snarky (The same can't be said for other ladies here, but I've been on the Internet long enough to know that some people will take any chance to take a low blow, lol).  I will look into local resources to see if there is something less expensive.  I suppose I could afford therapy but it would cause financial trouble if I saw a therapist more than a few times a year.  I also live in a city where therapy seems to be ridiculously expensive!  Like $200 per appointment!
    Can you site an example?
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  • Another thing for you to consider, OP: yes, men can cheat. So can women. Any person is capable of doing (almost) anything they want. Nothing you do will stop your FI from cheating on you if that's what he wants to do. Making divorce "hard so he can't just up and leave you" isn't going to work if he truly just wants to up and leave you. You need to stop trying to prevent things that are outside of your control, and work on improving your perspective of yourself and of relationships before you enter into an iron-clad one with your FI. 
    Yeah, women do cheat just as often as men, it's true!  I guess I just feel like that's not possible for me (and yes, I know I sound naive) but I know for a fact I could never do better than SO.  I could see myself maybe getting drunk in the future and kissing someone and immediately regretting it, but I can't for the life of me imagine ever having an actual affair. 
  • Do you have insurance?  Are you in school?  I only ask the second question because, when I was at college, there were free counseling services, provided by the graduate students of the psych department. Maybe you would have something similar in your area.
    grumbledoredoeydo[Deleted User]
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