Well... I just got gutted. - Update in thread

novella1186

Warning: this is yet another post about my crazy sister, so if you're sick of hearing about it (which I wouldn't blame you for) feel free not to read. 

Last week I told my therapist that the worst part about the fight we had is that things are just so WEIRD. She's been ignoring me for almost 6 months now, and we used to talk all the time. The longer the fight drags on, the more awkward things get. I tried apologizing to her (even though I still don't know what I did to piss her off), but she never responded. So the therapist recommended that I just keep trying to reach out to her. It sounded like a good idea to me, so last Thursday I e-mailed my sister and just said "Hey, we should talk." Nothing. This Saturday I texted her and said "I don't know if you got my e-mail but I think we should talk." 

Well to my shock and amazement, she responded this afternoon. But she said "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." I honestly don't know what I expected, but that completely knocked the wind out of me. I seriously felt like I'd been punched in the stomach and I had to fight back the tears cuz I really don't want to sit in the middle of my crowded office crying like an idiot. That was probably the worst response I could've gotten from her. I think it would have been better if she said something shitty. But "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." 

So... she has nothing to say? Nothing? After all the insults she threw at me (and I didn't even return any insults through the entire thing), after she tried to convince my FI that I treat everyone "like shit" and that I'm completely "manipulative and bipolar" (which is when FI yelled at her and shut her down, because he knew those things to be so ridiculously false and couldn't take any more of her attacking me.) And I've apologized to her for doing nothing, but she has no apology for me? I guess I shouldn't be so shocked but I am. She has nothing to say. Like... how? 

I figured I should seize the opportunity anyway, even though I was hurting like all hell, and I said "I don't have a lot to say other than the apology I already gave you, and that I see no point in dragging out a stupid fight for months and months. I'm not used to having things be so awkward between you and I, and that sucks. I thought we were really close, and I pretty much feel like I lost one of my best friends. Other than that, I also wanted to give you an opening in case you had more to say or something to add, an explanation of anything, whatever." Nothing. No response. 

Maybe that wasn't the greatest way for me to respond to her. I don't know if I said the right thing or not. I was just being honest and trying not to say anything out of anger. And I was pretty much pleading for her to say SOMETHING. Even if it was something mean. JUST SAY SOMETHING. But I got nothing. I can't even wrap my head around this. It's like she wants me to grovel at her feet and keep apologizing, as if she honestly believes I deserved the stuff she said to me and she did nothing wrong. But what the fuck did I do wrong? What did I do? If she could just explain what I did, even if it's not a real thing, even if it's something she made up, anything would be better than nothing. How can she have NOTHING to say????  

My therapist suspects my sister has Borderline Personality Disorder (and I believe some of you have suggested that as well, and some family friends have suggested it, and she definitely has a lot of the telltale signs/behavior) so maybe this is what I should have expected. But I didn't. 

What makes it even worse is that she'll inevitably run to my parents about this and twist it around that I did something horribly wrong here too, like I should have apologized more or something, and how dare I not, and soon my mother will be nagging/guilt-tripping/passive aggressively coming after me for doing something wrong, and putting the pressure back on me to fix it. 

My head is hurting from all the pressure and trying so hard not to cry right now.  

I have no idea where to go from here. No idea. I just feel so completely defeated and... sad. Just so sad. 

climbingsingle

I wish I could give you a big hug right now. 

novella1186

ClimbingBrideNY said:

I wish I could give you a big hug right now. 

Thank you. 

maeday2

It sounds like you've done all you can. You can't make someone behave properly, especially if she truly has significant personality issues. Know in your heart that you've tried and don't carry her issues with you. 

I feel for you. My sister and I have gone through long periods of not talking. It royally sucks. We always suck it up and say, "You're a bitch, I'm a bitch, let's drop this." 

Big hugs to you. Family drama is stressful. 

carrie0924

Can you trick them into going to counseling?

But seriously... I'm so sorry. With my sister, I tried for 6 years to reach out, with no response. And the day she responded? Seriously the most hateful, hurtful things I've ever read. Reading it, I realized my sister must see me as an absolute monster second only to Hitler for the crimes and atrocities I had committed in my youth. I responded with a simple "I'm so sorry to have hurt you. I will not bother you again. My door is always open if you ever want to contact me." She responded to this with a second hurtful tirade. I apologized again, and left it at that. I spent 8 hours crying at my desk that day. I totally get that.

Words, or the lack thereof, are especially hurtful coming from those who are closest to us. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Just try to remember that you cannot control her actions, only yours. It sounds like you're doing the right thing. She may just have a lot more growing up left to do. Hugs. Family drama is the pits.

emmaaa

I'm so sorry. It's hard to reach out just to be knocked down. But if this is something that means that much to you (and I know it would be important to me), I would keep reaching out to her.

novella1186

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

southernbelle0915

If it took her from Saturday until today to say "If you want to walk, I'm willing to listen", she might need more time to come up with something to respond to what you said this afternoon. It's only been a matter of hours. And if she works, she's probably busy.

Holding out hope the two of you can find a way to have a healthy dialogue. 

sarawifenow

I'm so sorry! I think at this point you need to evaluate whether or not you want to pursue a relationship with your sister. You cannot force someone to be a decent human being. And, let's face it, she is not acting like one.

 

After everything I have read that you have written about her, I would be tempted to just walk away from this situation. Just because she is your sister does not mean she gets to treat you like shit. I wish I could give you all the hugs and then pop one to your sister.

kat1114

I don't have much advice to give. I'm an only child, so I can't quite relate to the dynamic siblings have. But I'm sending you positive vibes!

theycallmelinz

So... Two things.

1. I'm a therapist. I disagree with "If you don't get resolution, this will all come back to bite you later." I think sometimes you have to learn how to accept an apology you were never given in order to move on. You have to know that you tried your damnest to fix things, and your sister (and mother) wouldn't budge, and you have ZERO control over that. The resolution I feel like will lie in you doing everything you could and you have to be okay with the effort you put forth.

2. You have no control over others' actions or feelings, all you can control is yourself. As someone in a very similar situation with my sister, I eventually got to the point where I let go of wanting to have a relationship with her. She doesn't want to be in my life anymore, and though I think about her almost daily, I've finally accepted that we aren't going to be in each other's lives. She doesn't even know I'm getting married, and I know that's not my fault. Now, it's taken me YEARS to get to this place so I know it isn't easy, but at some point I believe you just have to be happy with the effort you've given and accept her actions for what they are.

 

Hugs to you, I hope you feel better.

novella1186

theycallmelinz said:

So... Two things.

1. I'm a therapist. I disagree with "If you don't get resolution, this will all come back to bite you later." I think sometimes you have to learn how to accept an apology you were never given in order to move on. You have to know that you tried your damnest to fix things, and your sister (and mother) wouldn't budge, and you have ZERO control over that. The resolution I feel like will lie in you doing everything you could and you have to be okay with the effort you put forth.

2. You have no control over others' actions or feelings, all you can control is yourself. As someone in a very similar situation with my sister, I eventually got to the point where I let go of wanting to have a relationship with her. She doesn't want to be in my life anymore, and though I think about her almost daily, I've finally accepted that we aren't going to be in each other's lives. She doesn't even know I'm getting married, and I know that's not my fault. Now, it's taken me YEARS to get to this place so I know it isn't easy, but at some point I believe you just have to be happy with the effort you've given and accept her actions for what they are.

 

Hugs to you, I hope you feel better.

I wish YOU were my therapist. I totally agree with what you said, which was why I tried to tell my IRL therapist that I feel like I just need to figure out how to let it all go and move on, for my own sake really. But since I also told her I hate how weird things are, maybe she thought reaching out and getting some kind of resolution would help  more. Who knows. Maybe I interpreted things wrong. Maybe I did the wrong thing. Maybe I said the wrong things to my sister today. I have no idea. I just feel totally lost. 

flyingfoxes

I don't know if I agree with your therapist that you should keep reaching out to her.  She's stringing you along, and I frankly think she enjoys watching you suffer.  Stop giving her the pleasure.  You've stated that you were willing to talk, the ball's in her court now - you don't have to give her all the control over YOU getting to move past this whole mess. 

novella1186

Just want to say thanks for the support, yet again. I feel kind of alone in this. My real life friends are at a loss and are totally baffled by the shit my sister says and does, and I haven't even told any of them the full story because they all have their own lives, and I wouldn't think they'd want to hear me constantly bitching/crying about this. 

FI's family knows the gist of what's going on, but I'm too humiliated to say much to them about it. I mean, my own sister hates me. FI's family is so kind and easy-going, I don't even know how to begin to tell them what a mess this all is, and I wouldn't expect them to understand it since they're not like that. Which is why FI doesn't really understand what's going on either. He lets me vent to him as much as I need to, but he doesn't have much advice to give me. 

If I couldn't talk this out with you guys, I have no idea what I would even do. But I'm so thankful for the advice and support. It really means a lot, and it makes a huge difference. 

lmcooper86

I'm so sorry that that's the response you got for reaching out and trying to resolve this.

I've been lurking on CC for a while and have seen your other sister posts, and I'm sorry that she keeps painting you as the bad guy and acting like you owe her something. You've tried so many times to fix a problem that you didn't cause, and I think that @sarawifenow might be right...you may want to consider how much of a relationship you want to have with your sister. I know your mom pesters you into reaching out and I wouldn't be willing to completely lose my sister either, but I also wouldn't be willing to keep being treated like that.

Sending hugs!

PrettyGirlLost

novella1186 said:

Warning: this is yet another post about my crazy sister, so if you're sick of hearing about it (which I wouldn't blame you for) feel free not to read. 

Last week I told my therapist that the worst part about the fight we had is that things are just so WEIRD. She's been ignoring me for almost 6 months now, and we used to talk all the time. The longer the fight drags on, the more awkward things get. I tried apologizing to her (even though I still don't know what I did to piss her off), but she never responded. So the therapist recommended that I just keep trying to reach out to her. It sounded like a good idea to me, so last Thursday I e-mailed my sister and just said "Hey, we should talk." Nothing. This Saturday I texted her and said "I don't know if you got my e-mail but I think we should talk." 

Well to my shock and amazement, she responded this afternoon. But she said "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." I honestly don't know what I expected, but that completely knocked the wind out of me. I seriously felt like I'd been punched in the stomach and I had to fight back the tears cuz I really don't want to sit in the middle of my crowded office crying like an idiot. That was probably the worst response I could've gotten from her. I think it would have been better if she said something shitty. But "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." 

So... she has nothing to say? Nothing? After all the insults she threw at me (and I didn't even return any insults through the entire thing), after she tried to convince my FI that I treat everyone "like shit" and that I'm completely "manipulative and bipolar" (which is when FI yelled at her and shut her down, because he knew those things to be so ridiculously false and couldn't take any more of her attacking me.) And I've apologized to her for doing nothing, but she has no apology for me? I guess I shouldn't be so shocked but I am. She has nothing to say. Like... how? 

I figured I should seize the opportunity anyway, even though I was hurting like all hell, and I said "I don't have a lot to say other than the apology I already gave you, and that I see no point in dragging out a stupid fight for months and months. I'm not used to having things be so awkward between you and I, and that sucks. I thought we were really close, and I pretty much feel like I lost one of my best friends. Other than that, I also wanted to give you an opening in case you had more to say or something to add, an explanation of anything, whatever." Nothing. No response. 

Maybe that wasn't the greatest way for me to respond to her. I don't know if I said the right thing or not. I was just being honest and trying not to say anything out of anger. And I was pretty much pleading for her to say SOMETHING. Even if it was something mean. JUST SAY SOMETHING. But I got nothing. I can't even wrap my head around this. It's like she wants me to grovel at her feet and keep apologizing, as if she honestly believes I deserved the stuff she said to me and she did nothing wrong. But what the fuck did I do wrong? What did I do? If she could just explain what I did, even if it's not a real thing, even if it's something she made up, anything would be better than nothing. How can she have NOTHING to say????  

My therapist suspects my sister has Borderline Personality Disorder (and I believe some of you have suggested that as well, and some family friends have suggested it, and she definitely has a lot of the telltale signs/behavior) so maybe this is what I should have expected. But I didn't. 

What makes it even worse is that she'll inevitably run to my parents about this and twist it around that I did something horribly wrong here too, like I should have apologized more or something, and how dare I not, and soon my mother will be nagging/guilt-tripping/passive aggressively coming after me for doing something wrong, and putting the pressure back on me to fix it. 

My head is hurting from all the pressure and trying so hard not to cry right now.  

I have no idea where to go from here. No idea. I just feel so completely defeated and... sad. Just so sad. 

novella1186 said:

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

Personally, I think you should find a different therapist.

1st, no decent therapist would offer up a diagnosis about another person without ever having seen them personally as a patient, and they certainly wouldn't discuss that diagnosis with anyone else as it violates ethical and HIPAA standards.

2nd, if your therapist really thinks your sister has Borderline Personality Disorder, then she should also know that there is nothing that you can do in this situation to "fix" it.  So rather than encouraging you to keep reaching out to your sister, she should be talking to you about ways to deal with and interact with a person who has BPD, and how you can learn to accept and move past her dysfunctional behaviors and how you can accept and move on from the feelings of guilt, etc you experience in dealing with your sister and your family.

It's her job as a therapist to teach you how you to move on without getting closure or a resolution, because when you are dealing with other people, and especially those with behavioral and emotional issues as bad as BPD, you are not neccessarily going to get the closure or resolution that you want.

mikenberger

Honestly, in your heart, what did you expect from her? You've got to stop expecting the moon from these people and accept them for who they are and decide the relationship YOU want with them. You're trying to work them into the relationship you want THEM to have. I know you're living it, it's a fruitless and insane task.

It's time to be a bit selfish dear and protect yourself and your feelings from them. I wish you all the best truly.

ChemFanatic25

Hugs, lots and lots of hugs. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I totally know how you feel. Just lots and lots of hugs. And I'm glad you have a FI who will stand by you and defend you. Hugs.

KatieinBkln

novella1186 said:

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

I'm confused about what "resolution" your therapist is imagining? I mean, what exactly are you supposed to get out of going back over and over again to a person who seems insistent on punishing you? What later "bite" is worse than the constant pain you're subjecting yourself to now?

I am not saying your therapist is wrong. I am just saying I don't get what she's driving at. It seems like maybe you don't either? I don't know. I would ask her what exactly the plan is, or what the goal is, in continuing to poke at your sister. (By "poke at" I mean have a normal conversation, but obviously she thinks everything is a provocation). You can't control her, so what is the point of opening yourself up to her cruelty, I wonder?

southernbelle0915

PrettyGirlLost said:

novella1186 said:

Warning: this is yet another post about my crazy sister, so if you're sick of hearing about it (which I wouldn't blame you for) feel free not to read. 

Last week I told my therapist that the worst part about the fight we had is that things are just so WEIRD. She's been ignoring me for almost 6 months now, and we used to talk all the time. The longer the fight drags on, the more awkward things get. I tried apologizing to her (even though I still don't know what I did to piss her off), but she never responded. So the therapist recommended that I just keep trying to reach out to her. It sounded like a good idea to me, so last Thursday I e-mailed my sister and just said "Hey, we should talk." Nothing. This Saturday I texted her and said "I don't know if you got my e-mail but I think we should talk." 

Well to my shock and amazement, she responded this afternoon. But she said "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." I honestly don't know what I expected, but that completely knocked the wind out of me. I seriously felt like I'd been punched in the stomach and I had to fight back the tears cuz I really don't want to sit in the middle of my crowded office crying like an idiot. That was probably the worst response I could've gotten from her. I think it would have been better if she said something shitty. But "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." 

So... she has nothing to say? Nothing? After all the insults she threw at me (and I didn't even return any insults through the entire thing), after she tried to convince my FI that I treat everyone "like shit" and that I'm completely "manipulative and bipolar" (which is when FI yelled at her and shut her down, because he knew those things to be so ridiculously false and couldn't take any more of her attacking me.) And I've apologized to her for doing nothing, but she has no apology for me? I guess I shouldn't be so shocked but I am. She has nothing to say. Like... how? 

I figured I should seize the opportunity anyway, even though I was hurting like all hell, and I said "I don't have a lot to say other than the apology I already gave you, and that I see no point in dragging out a stupid fight for months and months. I'm not used to having things be so awkward between you and I, and that sucks. I thought we were really close, and I pretty much feel like I lost one of my best friends. Other than that, I also wanted to give you an opening in case you had more to say or something to add, an explanation of anything, whatever." Nothing. No response. 

Maybe that wasn't the greatest way for me to respond to her. I don't know if I said the right thing or not. I was just being honest and trying not to say anything out of anger. And I was pretty much pleading for her to say SOMETHING. Even if it was something mean. JUST SAY SOMETHING. But I got nothing. I can't even wrap my head around this. It's like she wants me to grovel at her feet and keep apologizing, as if she honestly believes I deserved the stuff she said to me and she did nothing wrong. But what the fuck did I do wrong? What did I do? If she could just explain what I did, even if it's not a real thing, even if it's something she made up, anything would be better than nothing. How can she have NOTHING to say????  

My therapist suspects my sister has Borderline Personality Disorder (and I believe some of you have suggested that as well, and some family friends have suggested it, and she definitely has a lot of the telltale signs/behavior) so maybe this is what I should have expected. But I didn't. 

What makes it even worse is that she'll inevitably run to my parents about this and twist it around that I did something horribly wrong here too, like I should have apologized more or something, and how dare I not, and soon my mother will be nagging/guilt-tripping/passive aggressively coming after me for doing something wrong, and putting the pressure back on me to fix it. 

My head is hurting from all the pressure and trying so hard not to cry right now.  

I have no idea where to go from here. No idea. I just feel so completely defeated and... sad. Just so sad. 

novella1186 said:

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

Personally, I think you should find a different therapist.

1st, no decent therapist would offer up a diagnosis about another person without ever having seen them personally as a patient, and they certainly wouldn't discuss that diagnosis with anyone else as it violates ethical and HIPAA standards.

2nd, if your therapist really thinks your sister has Borderline Personality Disorder, then she should also know that there is nothing that you can do in this situation to "fix" it.  So rather than encouraging you to keep reaching out to your sister, she should be talking to you about ways to deal with and interact with a person who has BPD, and how you can learn to accept and move past her dysfunctional behaviors and how you can accept and move on from the feelings of guilt, etc you experience in dealing with your sister and your family.

It's her job as a therapist to teach you how you to move on without getting closure or a resolution, because when you are dealing with other people, and especially those with behavioral and emotional issues as bad as BPD, you are not neccessarily going to get the closure or resolution that you want.

While I agree with everything you say conceptually, the bolded is not a HIPAA violation. If a therapist has never even seen someone as a patient, there's not PHI to protect - they have no records, no nothing on the person. Tossing out a theoretical diagnosis without ever seeing someone as a patient is unprofessional, absolutely. But it's not a HIPAA violation.

novella1186

KatieinBkln said:

novella1186 said:

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

I'm confused about what "resolution" your therapist is imagining? I mean, what exactly are you supposed to get out of going back over and over again to a person who seems insistent on punishing you? What later "bite" is worse than the constant pain you're subjecting yourself to now?

I am not saying your therapist is wrong. I am just saying I don't get what she's driving at. It seems like maybe you don't either? I don't know. I would ask her what exactly the plan is, or what the goal is, in continuing to poke at your sister. (By "poke at" I mean have a normal conversation, but obviously she thinks everything is a provocation). You can't control her, so what is the point of opening yourself up to her cruelty, I wonder?

I'm really confused about that too. At the time it seemed to make perfect sense, because we had been discussing how awkward all this is, and all the pressure I'm feeling to put an end to the feud. But in the grand scheme of things, there's more going on than just the feud. For a normal person, reaching out to her might have worked. But with the way she acts, now I feel like it was a stupid idea. The only thing I feel like I accomplished is being able to tell my mother to stop nagging me because I tried and it didn't work. 

PrettyGirlLost

southernbelle0915 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

novella1186 said:

Warning: this is yet another post about my crazy sister, so if you're sick of hearing about it (which I wouldn't blame you for) feel free not to read. 

Last week I told my therapist that the worst part about the fight we had is that things are just so WEIRD. She's been ignoring me for almost 6 months now, and we used to talk all the time. The longer the fight drags on, the more awkward things get. I tried apologizing to her (even though I still don't know what I did to piss her off), but she never responded. So the therapist recommended that I just keep trying to reach out to her. It sounded like a good idea to me, so last Thursday I e-mailed my sister and just said "Hey, we should talk." Nothing. This Saturday I texted her and said "I don't know if you got my e-mail but I think we should talk." 

Well to my shock and amazement, she responded this afternoon. But she said "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." I honestly don't know what I expected, but that completely knocked the wind out of me. I seriously felt like I'd been punched in the stomach and I had to fight back the tears cuz I really don't want to sit in the middle of my crowded office crying like an idiot. That was probably the worst response I could've gotten from her. I think it would have been better if she said something shitty. But "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." 

So... she has nothing to say? Nothing? After all the insults she threw at me (and I didn't even return any insults through the entire thing), after she tried to convince my FI that I treat everyone "like shit" and that I'm completely "manipulative and bipolar" (which is when FI yelled at her and shut her down, because he knew those things to be so ridiculously false and couldn't take any more of her attacking me.) And I've apologized to her for doing nothing, but she has no apology for me? I guess I shouldn't be so shocked but I am. She has nothing to say. Like... how? 

I figured I should seize the opportunity anyway, even though I was hurting like all hell, and I said "I don't have a lot to say other than the apology I already gave you, and that I see no point in dragging out a stupid fight for months and months. I'm not used to having things be so awkward between you and I, and that sucks. I thought we were really close, and I pretty much feel like I lost one of my best friends. Other than that, I also wanted to give you an opening in case you had more to say or something to add, an explanation of anything, whatever." Nothing. No response. 

Maybe that wasn't the greatest way for me to respond to her. I don't know if I said the right thing or not. I was just being honest and trying not to say anything out of anger. And I was pretty much pleading for her to say SOMETHING. Even if it was something mean. JUST SAY SOMETHING. But I got nothing. I can't even wrap my head around this. It's like she wants me to grovel at her feet and keep apologizing, as if she honestly believes I deserved the stuff she said to me and she did nothing wrong. But what the fuck did I do wrong? What did I do? If she could just explain what I did, even if it's not a real thing, even if it's something she made up, anything would be better than nothing. How can she have NOTHING to say????  

My therapist suspects my sister has Borderline Personality Disorder (and I believe some of you have suggested that as well, and some family friends have suggested it, and she definitely has a lot of the telltale signs/behavior) so maybe this is what I should have expected. But I didn't. 

What makes it even worse is that she'll inevitably run to my parents about this and twist it around that I did something horribly wrong here too, like I should have apologized more or something, and how dare I not, and soon my mother will be nagging/guilt-tripping/passive aggressively coming after me for doing something wrong, and putting the pressure back on me to fix it. 

My head is hurting from all the pressure and trying so hard not to cry right now.  

I have no idea where to go from here. No idea. I just feel so completely defeated and... sad. Just so sad. 

novella1186 said:

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

Personally, I think you should find a different therapist.

1st, no decent therapist would offer up a diagnosis about another person without ever having seen them personally as a patient, and they certainly wouldn't discuss that diagnosis with anyone else as it violates ethical and HIPAA standards.

2nd, if your therapist really thinks your sister has Borderline Personality Disorder, then she should also know that there is nothing that you can do in this situation to "fix" it.  So rather than encouraging you to keep reaching out to your sister, she should be talking to you about ways to deal with and interact with a person who has BPD, and how you can learn to accept and move past her dysfunctional behaviors and how you can accept and move on from the feelings of guilt, etc you experience in dealing with your sister and your family.

It's her job as a therapist to teach you how you to move on without getting closure or a resolution, because when you are dealing with other people, and especially those with behavioral and emotional issues as bad as BPD, you are not neccessarily going to get the closure or resolution that you want.

While I agree with everything you say conceptually, the bolded is not a HIPAA violation. If a therapist has never even seen someone as a patient, there's not PHI to protect - they have no records, no nothing on the person. Tossing out a theoretical diagnosis without ever seeing someone as a patient is unprofessional, absolutely. But it's not a HIPAA violation.

Sorry I meant that even if her therapist had seen her sister in person, she can't share her diagnosis with Novella.

JCbride2015

Just sending (((hugs)))

novella1186

PrettyGirlLost said:

southernbelle0915 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

novella1186 said:

Warning: this is yet another post about my crazy sister, so if you're sick of hearing about it (which I wouldn't blame you for) feel free not to read. 

Last week I told my therapist that the worst part about the fight we had is that things are just so WEIRD. She's been ignoring me for almost 6 months now, and we used to talk all the time. The longer the fight drags on, the more awkward things get. I tried apologizing to her (even though I still don't know what I did to piss her off), but she never responded. So the therapist recommended that I just keep trying to reach out to her. It sounded like a good idea to me, so last Thursday I e-mailed my sister and just said "Hey, we should talk." Nothing. This Saturday I texted her and said "I don't know if you got my e-mail but I think we should talk." 

Well to my shock and amazement, she responded this afternoon. But she said "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." I honestly don't know what I expected, but that completely knocked the wind out of me. I seriously felt like I'd been punched in the stomach and I had to fight back the tears cuz I really don't want to sit in the middle of my crowded office crying like an idiot. That was probably the worst response I could've gotten from her. I think it would have been better if she said something shitty. But "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." 

So... she has nothing to say? Nothing? After all the insults she threw at me (and I didn't even return any insults through the entire thing), after she tried to convince my FI that I treat everyone "like shit" and that I'm completely "manipulative and bipolar" (which is when FI yelled at her and shut her down, because he knew those things to be so ridiculously false and couldn't take any more of her attacking me.) And I've apologized to her for doing nothing, but she has no apology for me? I guess I shouldn't be so shocked but I am. She has nothing to say. Like... how? 

I figured I should seize the opportunity anyway, even though I was hurting like all hell, and I said "I don't have a lot to say other than the apology I already gave you, and that I see no point in dragging out a stupid fight for months and months. I'm not used to having things be so awkward between you and I, and that sucks. I thought we were really close, and I pretty much feel like I lost one of my best friends. Other than that, I also wanted to give you an opening in case you had more to say or something to add, an explanation of anything, whatever." Nothing. No response. 

Maybe that wasn't the greatest way for me to respond to her. I don't know if I said the right thing or not. I was just being honest and trying not to say anything out of anger. And I was pretty much pleading for her to say SOMETHING. Even if it was something mean. JUST SAY SOMETHING. But I got nothing. I can't even wrap my head around this. It's like she wants me to grovel at her feet and keep apologizing, as if she honestly believes I deserved the stuff she said to me and she did nothing wrong. But what the fuck did I do wrong? What did I do? If she could just explain what I did, even if it's not a real thing, even if it's something she made up, anything would be better than nothing. How can she have NOTHING to say????  

My therapist suspects my sister has Borderline Personality Disorder (and I believe some of you have suggested that as well, and some family friends have suggested it, and she definitely has a lot of the telltale signs/behavior) so maybe this is what I should have expected. But I didn't. 

What makes it even worse is that she'll inevitably run to my parents about this and twist it around that I did something horribly wrong here too, like I should have apologized more or something, and how dare I not, and soon my mother will be nagging/guilt-tripping/passive aggressively coming after me for doing something wrong, and putting the pressure back on me to fix it. 

My head is hurting from all the pressure and trying so hard not to cry right now.  

I have no idea where to go from here. No idea. I just feel so completely defeated and... sad. Just so sad. 

novella1186 said:

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

Personally, I think you should find a different therapist.

1st, no decent therapist would offer up a diagnosis about another person without ever having seen them personally as a patient, and they certainly wouldn't discuss that diagnosis with anyone else as it violates ethical and HIPAA standards.

2nd, if your therapist really thinks your sister has Borderline Personality Disorder, then she should also know that there is nothing that you can do in this situation to "fix" it.  So rather than encouraging you to keep reaching out to your sister, she should be talking to you about ways to deal with and interact with a person who has BPD, and how you can learn to accept and move past her dysfunctional behaviors and how you can accept and move on from the feelings of guilt, etc you experience in dealing with your sister and your family.

It's her job as a therapist to teach you how you to move on without getting closure or a resolution, because when you are dealing with other people, and especially those with behavioral and emotional issues as bad as BPD, you are not neccessarily going to get the closure or resolution that you want.

While I agree with everything you say conceptually, the bolded is not a HIPAA violation. If a therapist has never even seen someone as a patient, there's not PHI to protect - they have no records, no nothing on the person. Tossing out a theoretical diagnosis without ever seeing someone as a patient is unprofessional, absolutely. But it's not a HIPAA violation.

Sorry I meant that even if her therapist had seen her sister in person, she can't share her diagnosis with Novella.

I should clarify, she didn't diagnose my sister. She just commented that it sounds like she shows signs of that disorder; she said "I wonder if she has something like BPD, because it sounds like she shows some signs of it." I don't know if that makes a difference or not. To me it just carried a lot of weight because so many other people have suggested the same thing, so I've read about it and I'm also suspicious that she might have that. Who knows.  

hellosweetie1015

I really don't know how to express the level of rage and hurt I'm feeling for you right now. It makes me so so sad.

Hugs.

novella1186

hellosweetie1015 said:

I really don't know how to express the level of rage and hurt I'm feeling for you right now. It makes me so so sad.

Hugs.

Thank you. The fact that you guys care really makes me feel better about the whole mess. 

PrettyGirlLost

novella1186 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

southernbelle0915 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

novella1186 said:

Warning: this is yet another post about my crazy sister, so if you're sick of hearing about it (which I wouldn't blame you for) feel free not to read. 

Last week I told my therapist that the worst part about the fight we had is that things are just so WEIRD. She's been ignoring me for almost 6 months now, and we used to talk all the time. The longer the fight drags on, the more awkward things get. I tried apologizing to her (even though I still don't know what I did to piss her off), but she never responded. So the therapist recommended that I just keep trying to reach out to her. It sounded like a good idea to me, so last Thursday I e-mailed my sister and just said "Hey, we should talk." Nothing. This Saturday I texted her and said "I don't know if you got my e-mail but I think we should talk." 

Well to my shock and amazement, she responded this afternoon. But she said "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." I honestly don't know what I expected, but that completely knocked the wind out of me. I seriously felt like I'd been punched in the stomach and I had to fight back the tears cuz I really don't want to sit in the middle of my crowded office crying like an idiot. That was probably the worst response I could've gotten from her. I think it would have been better if she said something shitty. But "If you want to talk, I'm willing to listen." 

So... she has nothing to say? Nothing? After all the insults she threw at me (and I didn't even return any insults through the entire thing), after she tried to convince my FI that I treat everyone "like shit" and that I'm completely "manipulative and bipolar" (which is when FI yelled at her and shut her down, because he knew those things to be so ridiculously false and couldn't take any more of her attacking me.) And I've apologized to her for doing nothing, but she has no apology for me? I guess I shouldn't be so shocked but I am. She has nothing to say. Like... how? 

I figured I should seize the opportunity anyway, even though I was hurting like all hell, and I said "I don't have a lot to say other than the apology I already gave you, and that I see no point in dragging out a stupid fight for months and months. I'm not used to having things be so awkward between you and I, and that sucks. I thought we were really close, and I pretty much feel like I lost one of my best friends. Other than that, I also wanted to give you an opening in case you had more to say or something to add, an explanation of anything, whatever." Nothing. No response. 

Maybe that wasn't the greatest way for me to respond to her. I don't know if I said the right thing or not. I was just being honest and trying not to say anything out of anger. And I was pretty much pleading for her to say SOMETHING. Even if it was something mean. JUST SAY SOMETHING. But I got nothing. I can't even wrap my head around this. It's like she wants me to grovel at her feet and keep apologizing, as if she honestly believes I deserved the stuff she said to me and she did nothing wrong. But what the fuck did I do wrong? What did I do? If she could just explain what I did, even if it's not a real thing, even if it's something she made up, anything would be better than nothing. How can she have NOTHING to say????  

My therapist suspects my sister has Borderline Personality Disorder (and I believe some of you have suggested that as well, and some family friends have suggested it, and she definitely has a lot of the telltale signs/behavior) so maybe this is what I should have expected. But I didn't. 

What makes it even worse is that she'll inevitably run to my parents about this and twist it around that I did something horribly wrong here too, like I should have apologized more or something, and how dare I not, and soon my mother will be nagging/guilt-tripping/passive aggressively coming after me for doing something wrong, and putting the pressure back on me to fix it. 

My head is hurting from all the pressure and trying so hard not to cry right now.  

I have no idea where to go from here. No idea. I just feel so completely defeated and... sad. Just so sad. 

novella1186 said:

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

Personally, I think you should find a different therapist.

1st, no decent therapist would offer up a diagnosis about another person without ever having seen them personally as a patient, and they certainly wouldn't discuss that diagnosis with anyone else as it violates ethical and HIPAA standards.

2nd, if your therapist really thinks your sister has Borderline Personality Disorder, then she should also know that there is nothing that you can do in this situation to "fix" it.  So rather than encouraging you to keep reaching out to your sister, she should be talking to you about ways to deal with and interact with a person who has BPD, and how you can learn to accept and move past her dysfunctional behaviors and how you can accept and move on from the feelings of guilt, etc you experience in dealing with your sister and your family.

It's her job as a therapist to teach you how you to move on without getting closure or a resolution, because when you are dealing with other people, and especially those with behavioral and emotional issues as bad as BPD, you are not neccessarily going to get the closure or resolution that you want.

While I agree with everything you say conceptually, the bolded is not a HIPAA violation. If a therapist has never even seen someone as a patient, there's not PHI to protect - they have no records, no nothing on the person. Tossing out a theoretical diagnosis without ever seeing someone as a patient is unprofessional, absolutely. But it's not a HIPAA violation.

Sorry I meant that even if her therapist had seen her sister in person, she can't share her diagnosis with Novella.

I should clarify, she didn't diagnose my sister. She just commented that it sounds like she shows signs of that disorder; she said "I wonder if she has something like BPD, because it sounds like she shows some signs of it." I don't know if that makes a difference or not. To me it just carried a lot of weight because so many other people have suggested the same thing, so I've read about it and I'm also suspicious that she might have that. Who knows.  

And even so, her suggestions that you reach out to your sister to get resolution just don't make sense.

You're in therapy because your family is screwed up. . . screwed up people can't give you resolution ;-)

I'm sure you could argue that no one, not even healthy, rational, people can give you resolution because that's a state that you have to come to in your own life on your own.

KatieinBkln

novella1186 said:

KatieinBkln said:

novella1186 said:

I guess I need to figure out how to just let all this go without any closure or resolution. Which I told my therapist, that I need to stop dwelling and let it go, but she said if I got no resolution, this would all come back to bite me later, so I thought "Ok I'm gonna contact my sister and I'm gonna make all this work out and it's all going to be ok." I feel like an idiot for thinking that. 

Sooner or later I'm going to have to learn how to not let her get to me so much or this is going to keep tearing me to shreds, and I really hate feeling this bad. Ugh. I just wish I knew what to do. 

I'm confused about what "resolution" your therapist is imagining? I mean, what exactly are you supposed to get out of going back over and over again to a person who seems insistent on punishing you? What later "bite" is worse than the constant pain you're subjecting yourself to now?

I am not saying your therapist is wrong. I am just saying I don't get what she's driving at. It seems like maybe you don't either? I don't know. I would ask her what exactly the plan is, or what the goal is, in continuing to poke at your sister. (By "poke at" I mean have a normal conversation, but obviously she thinks everything is a provocation). You can't control her, so what is the point of opening yourself up to her cruelty, I wonder?

I'm really confused about that too. At the time it seemed to make perfect sense, because we had been discussing how awkward all this is, and all the pressure I'm feeling to put an end to the feud. But in the grand scheme of things, there's more going on than just the feud. For a normal person, reaching out to her might have worked. But with the way she acts, now I feel like it was a stupid idea. The only thing I feel like I accomplished is being able to tell my mother to stop nagging me because I tried and it didn't work. 

Just one other thing--honestly, the main reason it doesn't seem like a great idea to reach out to your sister? You're still mad at her. You have a right to be. But for real, is there a single thing she could say to you except for a heartfelt apology that would make you feel better? Given that you're unlikely to get an apology (or even an explanation, but frankly unless you murdered her puppy, the level of punishment she's subjecting you to is unreasonable, and I'm like 99% sure you didn't inadvertently do something as horrible as puppy-killing), what is the point of even talking to her?

I guess I could see the point of a periodic "Hi, just checking in to say I still love you and I'm around if you want to be normal again." IF you were really and truly ready to let bygones be bygones. But I don't think it's really to that point yet--you're still hurt and mad, as evidenced by how upset you were by her response. 

buttercup1958

I'm really sorry! I wish we could grab a drink or something. Your family sucks big time and you aren't alone. I mean even my dentist knows my brother is irresponsible! They ask me to remind HIM of his appointment. Cue eye rolls. I'm not a therapist but I'm willing to listen. You are awesome!

mrsdee15

I don't have anything to add other than what PPs have said, just virtual hugs and support.  I'm so sorry you're going through this

lovedryn

novella1186 said:

Just want to say thanks for the support, yet again. I feel kind of alone in this. My real life friends are at a loss and are totally baffled by the shit my sister says and does, and I haven't even told any of them the full story because they all have their own lives, and I wouldn't think they'd want to hear me constantly bitching/crying about this. 

FI's family knows the gist of what's going on, but I'm too humiliated to say much to them about it. I mean, my own sister hates me. FI's family is so kind and easy-going, I don't even know how to begin to tell them what a mess this all is, and I wouldn't expect them to understand it since they're not like that. Which is why FI doesn't really understand what's going on either. He lets me vent to him as much as I need to, but he doesn't have much advice to give me. 

If I couldn't talk this out with you guys, I have no idea what I would even do. But I'm so thankful for the advice and support. It really means a lot, and it makes a huge difference. 

I'm so sorry that you're going through all this. I understand how hard it can be to deal with family when you're in a fucked up situation.

Like PPs, I would also recommend getting a different therapist. Honestly sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself is to get away from the negative people and things in your life. You've clearly tried multiple times to work out the situation with your sister, and yet she continues to harass and hurt you without any apology or sense of decency. Maybe it's a good time to cut ties with your sister (and maybe your mom too if she insists on making the situation worse and always siding with your sister regardless of how shitty she is treating you).

Often just cutting ties and avoiding people and situations that are harmful to your relationships and your personal health for a while are the best way to better those relationships. I know with my family when I was dealing with stupid crap like you have gone through, that was what worked for me. I cut ties with my family, limited the times that I would see them or talk to them, and eventually they got the point. My family is no longer openly abusive towards myself for my fiance. It may have taken them a year and a half of us not speaking or seeing each other except on very limited terms that I set. But in the long run, we are able to have a more decent relationship because I showed them that I would not hesitate to walk away if they were going to be cruel and abusive.

My family learned that is they treated us like shit, they would not be a part of my life. And then they got to put on their big boy panties and choose for themselves if fucking over a relationship with their daughter was worth it or not.

You can't force people to change or to grow up and behave like adults. But you can give them a choice. A choice of not existing with in your life... Or a choice of shaping up their attitude and treating you with respect.

ETA: grammar