Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

mrs4everhart

mobkaz said:

Simply Fated said:

STBMrsEverhart said:

Jells2dot0 said:

STBMrsEverhart said:

melaniejames517 said:

OK thanks. I just want to be sure it's not absolutely awful to lie and say I won't have the funds since it's so soon after my own wedding.

So you're put off by what you consider her "dishonesty," but you're going to lie to her? Makes perfect sense. No, if you're going to sit in judgement of her personal decisions, tell her. This thread is full of honesty-as-the-best-policy blather, give her the option to understand your sanctimony.  Or be happy for your friend and get over yourself. 

I think the OP's friend needs to get over herself. She chose to have a JOP wedding but that wasn't good enough. You know the speil by now, STB. I, at least, gave advice that did not include lying.

To the bold - well, then you're at least consistent. 

Speaking of lying... are you still going ahead with lying to your guests?

She..........named doesn't lie, remember?  She is economical with the truth.  She saves friends and family from unnecessary and irrelevant information.  She helps them become "one" with the moment.  She does not have guests, they are patsies.

Oh, thank you SO MUCH @mobkaz for speaking on my behalf! And thanks also for the extra effort in making me sound so new-age and mystical! Gosh, I'm excited to flex this new power of assisting friends and family to really transcend during our vow exchange! But I'm curious, if these folks are not our guests and mere "patsies" does that mean that a cash bar would be in poor taste? I'm just curious, no reason not to save a boatload of cash if etiquette deems it alright to charge "patsies" for booze, not sure where Ms. Manners stands on hosting/not hosting "patsies"? 

@Simply Fated, not much, if anything at all about our plans have changed. In fact, after receiving some extremely devastating news very recently, we are more certain than ever that our current plans are still the best options for a whole host of new reasons and our trip is even more special and important than it was previously. Those who have always known have a renewed and more vested interest and those who don't are still in the same position to either attend or decline a wedding ceremony, reception and kick ass vacation invitation as they have always been. Life's short, we're making the most out of it!

syoun1nj

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Jells2dot0

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

That may be one of the worst PPD stories I have ever heard! They want to re-do their wedding but they aren't properly hosting their guests?!?!?! Yikes! I really hope, for your sake, that they properly host you, especially since you are attending knowing full well they are married.

HiThere674

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Wait? There won't be food or drinks?

syoun1nj

@HiThere674 we aren't sure! It's from 4-8 pm, so it is dinner time. The venue is a restaurant. Our hope is that they are hosting food and it's cash bar. The wife made a lot of comments at our wedding about "THIS is why we aren't having an open bar" even though no one was rowdy or inappropriate at our wedding from alcohol.

Worst case: nothing hosted.

Best case: everything hosted!

Likely case: food hosted, drinks not.

It should be an interesting weekend!!

MobKaz

Apparently in many cases, PPD also can be known as a Pretty Pathetic Day.

TerriHugg

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

syoun1nj

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

To me at least, they're fake because these people already said their vows several months ago because he wanted her benefits. That was the day they took their real vows, the day those vows had meaning to them. Now they want to perform them for us. If they wanted us to see their real vows, they could have waited to get married or invited us to the first one. It's just very contrived. Just have the party, we know you're married, no performance art necessary. 

Jells2dot0

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

There is nothing wrong with reaffirming your vows. Obivously, that is why people have vow renewals You can restate your vows at any time- privately or in the presence of others. However, those others should know that the couple are reaffirming their vows, not exchange them as part of becoming wed. I believe that the OP knows they are married, but others do not. So, to me, the entire charade is fake.

FWIW, if you are going to go through the whole process of re-doing a wedding, at least have the courtesy to properly host your guests.

classyduck

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

Have to agree, I'm not sure I understand why stating vows in front of an audience that is your community is such a faux pas, even if the vows have already been given in front of an official. It's a totally different context. Frankly, I think context is immensely relevant -- even requisite -- in the making of a vow. If you make one in private, and break it, who knows? The more people to witness, the graver and more solemn the vow. Particularly if the opinions of the community members matter to you.

LondonLisa

classyduck said:

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

Have to agree, I'm not sure I understand why stating vows in front of an audience that is your community is such a faux pas, even if the vows have already been given in front of an official. It's a totally different context. Frankly, I think context is immensely relevant -- even requisite -- in the making of a vow. If you make one in private, and break it, who knows? The more people to witness, the graver and more solemn the vow. Particularly if the opinions of the community members matter to you.

The vow is to your spouse. If the only thing keeping you from not breaking your vows is peer pressure, there are bigger issues. Wedding vows are sacred because by saying those words you are actively being transformed from two single people to a married couple  in front of the people you love. 

When people have PPD it diminishes the meaning of those vows. People can then say them at any time without any real meaning behind it. Does the officient say "I now declare you  MORE married?".  It is the act of saying them that makes the couple married, and that gives those vows legitimacy. 

It just becomes play-acting when you are saying them when you have already been married. You can always reaffirm your vows to your spouse, but you don't need an audience. They are fake because the couple is not being married. They can throw a party, make toasts to each other and make promises to each other, but no matter what they say, they are not "wedding vows" because they are already married. The wedding vows only take place when a couple is being wed. 

Wedding wows aren't a driver's license, they don't expire and you don't have to renew them!

TerriHugg

LondonLisa said:

classyduck said:

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

Have to agree, I'm not sure I understand why stating vows in front of an audience that is your community is such a faux pas, even if the vows have already been given in front of an official. It's a totally different context. Frankly, I think context is immensely relevant -- even requisite -- in the making of a vow. If you make one in private, and break it, who knows? The more people to witness, the graver and more solemn the vow. Particularly if the opinions of the community members matter to you.

The vow is to your spouse. If the only thing keeping you from not breaking your vows is peer pressure, there are bigger issues. Wedding vows are sacred because by saying those words you are actively being transformed from two single people to a married couple  in front of the people you love. 

When people have PPD it diminishes the meaning of those vows. People can then say them at any time without any real meaning behind it. Does the officient say "I now declare you  MORE married?".  It is the act of saying them that makes the couple married, and that gives those vows legitimacy. 

It just becomes play-acting when you are saying them when you have already been married. You can always reaffirm your vows to your spouse, but you don't need an audience. They are fake because the couple is not being married. They can throw a party, make toasts to each other and make promises to each other, but no matter what they say, they are not "wedding vows" because they are already married. The wedding vows only take place when a couple is being wed. 

Wedding wows aren't a driver's license, they don't expire and you don't have to renew them!

I respectfully disagree. As stated before, just because you said the vows previously during your legal ceremony does not mean saying them again during a reaffirmation, PPD, spiritual ceremony or whatever you want to call it suddenly makes those vows fake. And I strongly stand by that saying they are suddenly fake because you said them before is very insensitive because they can be very real to the couple who says them no matter how many times they repeat it to each other. Whether i agree with it or not, I refuse to call any part of someone else's wedding, ceremony or party fake as it can still be very real to the couple. Calling them fake is insensitive and once again no better than brides who have a PPD and refer to their JOP ceremony as fake. So yes, you can be mad because they weren't upfront about letting you know they got married in a JOP ceremony, but it's really not right to say that they are fake because of it.

A vow is a promise.  I am well aware that vows are not like licenses that expire and need to be renewed. Just because vows don't expire or the couple has previously stated them does not mean they are fake.

crunchymamaof2

If a couple feels that strongly about their vows and married for the right reasons they don't need to redo their wedding in front of an audience. The vows themselves may be real having to have an audience diminishes them. If it is that important to you that others witness your marriage vows then you'd make it happen at the real and actual wedding. Putting on a show after the fact just screams you want attention and that the show is more important.

Plus unless you're Quaker you don't need an audience. Just your officiant and maybe a witness or two. PPDs are about selfishness and feeling like you deserve "your day," news flash: you were able to be married, be grateful or plan your dream wedding from the start.

Inkdancer

TerriHugg said:

LondonLisa said:

classyduck said:

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

Have to agree, I'm not sure I understand why stating vows in front of an audience that is your community is such a faux pas, even if the vows have already been given in front of an official. It's a totally different context. Frankly, I think context is immensely relevant -- even requisite -- in the making of a vow. If you make one in private, and break it, who knows? The more people to witness, the graver and more solemn the vow. Particularly if the opinions of the community members matter to you.

The vow is to your spouse. If the only thing keeping you from not breaking your vows is peer pressure, there are bigger issues. Wedding vows are sacred because by saying those words you are actively being transformed from two single people to a married couple  in front of the people you love. 

When people have PPD it diminishes the meaning of those vows. People can then say them at any time without any real meaning behind it. Does the officient say "I now declare you  MORE married?".  It is the act of saying them that makes the couple married, and that gives those vows legitimacy. 

It just becomes play-acting when you are saying them when you have already been married. You can always reaffirm your vows to your spouse, but you don't need an audience. They are fake because the couple is not being married. They can throw a party, make toasts to each other and make promises to each other, but no matter what they say, they are not "wedding vows" because they are already married. The wedding vows only take place when a couple is being wed. 

Wedding wows aren't a driver's license, they don't expire and you don't have to renew them!

I respectfully disagree. As stated before, just because you said the vows previously during your legal ceremony does not mean saying them again during a reaffirmation, PPD, spiritual ceremony or whatever you want to call it suddenly makes those vows fake. And I strongly stand by that saying they are suddenly fake because you said them before is very insensitive because they can be very real to the couple who says them no matter how many times they repeat it to each other. Whether i agree with it or not, I refuse to call any part of someone else's wedding, ceremony or party fake as it can still be very real to the couple. Calling them fake is insensitive and once again no better than brides who have a PPD and refer to their JOP ceremony as fake. So yes, you can be mad because they weren't upfront about letting you know they got married in a JOP ceremony, but it's really not right to say that they are fake because of it.

A vow is a promise.  I am well aware that vows are not like licenses that expire and need to be renewed. Just because vows don't expire or the couple has previously stated them does not mean they are fake.

To the people at this wedding do-over, they are sort of fake, though. When I go to a wedding, I expect to see two people wed one another. If they exchange vows promising to love, cherish, have, and hold as though it is the first time, it's not real, because they aren't being honest with everyone present about what's happening.

If they want to have a vow renewal, fine. But you don't dress the dog in a chicken suit and call it a chicken.

HeatherKat

Inkdancer said:

TerriHugg said:

LondonLisa said:

classyduck said:

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

Have to agree, I'm not sure I understand why stating vows in front of an audience that is your community is such a faux pas, even if the vows have already been given in front of an official. It's a totally different context. Frankly, I think context is immensely relevant -- even requisite -- in the making of a vow. If you make one in private, and break it, who knows? The more people to witness, the graver and more solemn the vow. Particularly if the opinions of the community members matter to you.

The vow is to your spouse. If the only thing keeping you from not breaking your vows is peer pressure, there are bigger issues. Wedding vows are sacred because by saying those words you are actively being transformed from two single people to a married couple  in front of the people you love. 

When people have PPD it diminishes the meaning of those vows. People can then say them at any time without any real meaning behind it. Does the officient say "I now declare you  MORE married?".  It is the act of saying them that makes the couple married, and that gives those vows legitimacy. 

It just becomes play-acting when you are saying them when you have already been married. You can always reaffirm your vows to your spouse, but you don't need an audience. They are fake because the couple is not being married. They can throw a party, make toasts to each other and make promises to each other, but no matter what they say, they are not "wedding vows" because they are already married. The wedding vows only take place when a couple is being wed. 

Wedding wows aren't a driver's license, they don't expire and you don't have to renew them!

I respectfully disagree. As stated before, just because you said the vows previously during your legal ceremony does not mean saying them again during a reaffirmation, PPD, spiritual ceremony or whatever you want to call it suddenly makes those vows fake. And I strongly stand by that saying they are suddenly fake because you said them before is very insensitive because they can be very real to the couple who says them no matter how many times they repeat it to each other. Whether i agree with it or not, I refuse to call any part of someone else's wedding, ceremony or party fake as it can still be very real to the couple. Calling them fake is insensitive and once again no better than brides who have a PPD and refer to their JOP ceremony as fake. So yes, you can be mad because they weren't upfront about letting you know they got married in a JOP ceremony, but it's really not right to say that they are fake because of it.

A vow is a promise.  I am well aware that vows are not like licenses that expire and need to be renewed. Just because vows don't expire or the couple has previously stated them does not mean they are fake.

To the people at this wedding do-over, they are sort of fake, though. When I go to a wedding, I expect to see two people wed one another. If they exchange vows promising to love, cherish, have, and hold as though it is the first time, it's not real, because they aren't being honest with everyone present about what's happening.

If they want to have a vow renewal, fine. But you don't dress the dog in a chicken suit and call it a chicken.

APDSS22

HeatherKat said:

Inkdancer said:

TerriHugg said:

LondonLisa said:

classyduck said:

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

Have to agree, I'm not sure I understand why stating vows in front of an audience that is your community is such a faux pas, even if the vows have already been given in front of an official. It's a totally different context. Frankly, I think context is immensely relevant -- even requisite -- in the making of a vow. If you make one in private, and break it, who knows? The more people to witness, the graver and more solemn the vow. Particularly if the opinions of the community members matter to you.

The vow is to your spouse. If the only thing keeping you from not breaking your vows is peer pressure, there are bigger issues. Wedding vows are sacred because by saying those words you are actively being transformed from two single people to a married couple  in front of the people you love. 

When people have PPD it diminishes the meaning of those vows. People can then say them at any time without any real meaning behind it. Does the officient say "I now declare you  MORE married?".  It is the act of saying them that makes the couple married, and that gives those vows legitimacy. 

It just becomes play-acting when you are saying them when you have already been married. You can always reaffirm your vows to your spouse, but you don't need an audience. They are fake because the couple is not being married. They can throw a party, make toasts to each other and make promises to each other, but no matter what they say, they are not "wedding vows" because they are already married. The wedding vows only take place when a couple is being wed. 

Wedding wows aren't a driver's license, they don't expire and you don't have to renew them!

I respectfully disagree. As stated before, just because you said the vows previously during your legal ceremony does not mean saying them again during a reaffirmation, PPD, spiritual ceremony or whatever you want to call it suddenly makes those vows fake. And I strongly stand by that saying they are suddenly fake because you said them before is very insensitive because they can be very real to the couple who says them no matter how many times they repeat it to each other. Whether i agree with it or not, I refuse to call any part of someone else's wedding, ceremony or party fake as it can still be very real to the couple. Calling them fake is insensitive and once again no better than brides who have a PPD and refer to their JOP ceremony as fake. So yes, you can be mad because they weren't upfront about letting you know they got married in a JOP ceremony, but it's really not right to say that they are fake because of it.

A vow is a promise.  I am well aware that vows are not like licenses that expire and need to be renewed. Just because vows don't expire or the couple has previously stated them does not mean they are fake.

To the people at this wedding do-over, they are sort of fake, though. When I go to a wedding, I expect to see two people wed one another. If they exchange vows promising to love, cherish, have, and hold as though it is the first time, it's not real, because they aren't being honest with everyone present about what's happening.

If they want to have a vow renewal, fine. But you don't dress the dog in a chicken suit and call it a chicken.

Thank you, that was the exact image I was picturing when she said dog in a chicken suit...

syoun1nj

For the record...these were the "vows"

"When they took their vows four months ago, they had no idea what was in store for them. In the past four months, many thing happened. they got twins - twin puppies! If you promise to honor and cherish each other, say 'we do'" 

I am not opposed to a vow renewal on a big anniversary or after a major event (e.g., tough times, considering divorce, etc). I'm thinking puppies don't qualify for that necessity.

Jells2dot0

syoun1nj said:

For the record...these were the "vows"

"When they took their vows four months ago, they had no idea what was in store for them. In the past four months, many thing happened. they got twins - twin puppies! If you promise to honor and cherish each other, say 'we do'" 

I am not opposed to a vow renewal on a big anniversary or after a major event (e.g., tough times, considering divorce, etc). I'm thinking puppies don't qualify for that necessity.

So...they announced that they were in fact married already? did everyone know that going into the "ceremony"? If not everyone knew, that would be quite the shock! 

Did they host you properly?

QueerFemme

Emilykaett said:

I'm going to cut in here because I have a question. I have been trying to go through all the pages of this topic but I can't seem to find someone with the same situation as me. I sincerely apologize if this is a repetition--if it is, could you direct me to roughly which page of the topic it is on and I'll leave you all in peace?

I got married two years ago in Barcelona, Spain. I consider that my wedding day and I'm trying hard not to have a PPD. My husband is from Barcelona so we had to figure out what was the best way for us to get married, and also where would we want to live after we got married? We decided we wanted to move to the U.S. for many reasons so then we had to figure out what was the best for us legally and emotionally (what did we want from our wedding day?). We did tons of research. And I mean tons.

We planned to have the legal wedding here and then move to the U.S. and have a vow exchange ceremony and reception (NOT a "wedding" not a "do-over" but a chance to exchange vows, which was NOT an option at our JOP/courthouse wedding). We chose this way because most of the family from Spain wouldn't be able to travel to the U.S. and none of the U.S. family could travel to Spain (except my mother). We thought this was the best way so that everyone we love could somehow be included in a part of the marriage (I consider the legal part and vows to be the whole marriage ceremony..).

So we had our civil ceremony and had a lovely family lunch afterwards. From my side of the family, only my mother could come.

After the civil ceremony we started to do our paperwork for my husband to come to the U.S. Only now, two years later (1.5 years of paperwork processing etc.) do we have permission to go to the U.S. Now, why did we wait to have the U.S. side of the wedding so long? Because 1) They changed the immigration laws and we no longer could use the 3 month process we had planned on. 2) Once you begin immigration paperwork, the intending immigrant is NOT allowed to travel to the U.S.

So, now we are planning the vow exchange ceremony and reception for our family and friends in the U.S. We are not "re-enacting" anything. We never got to exchange any vows and we think that is an integral part of getting married. No one will pronounce us "Husband and Wife", no one will announce "for the first time I present Mr. & Mrs. soandso". The ceremony will consist of a pastor saying a prayer, a few short readings or speeches, and our vows.

Our invitations say, "Together with their familes, Jane and John, request the pleasure of your company at the celebration of their marriage" And I certainly don't expect anyone to bring a gift or even a card--their presence at this ceremony and celebration is what we are looking forward to. We won't be registering anywhere.

 I don't believe we "aren't married yet". I know we are. I wear the ring and I call him my husband because he is. But, I don't think this is a PPD because if we wanted each of our families to be a part of our wedding, this was the only way we could do it.

So my questions are these:
1) Am I really having a PPD and don't know it? Bleh, I don't want to be that girl.
2) Is there something I can do to make sure my guests aren't rolling their eyes behind their programs? (we won't actually have programs but..you get the point)
3) Again--if there is a similar situation just tell me which page of the thread and I'll stop bothering you!

Thanks..and please be nice? I'm truly trying to do this in the best way possible.

So, the thing is, yeah, you are having a PPD.  You are already married, and you are having a re-do.   It's basically a vow renewal, but you are having it because you are already married, and you want to have a re-do. The reasons for the re-do are basically insigificant in the grand scheme of things.  You got married for the reasons you did, and now you are having another ceremony.

If you want to do this, my suggestion is to skip the ceremony part, and just have a kick-ass celebration. 

QueerFemme

TerriHugg said:

LondonLisa said:

classyduck said:

TerriHugg said:

syoun1nj said:

I get to attend a PPD this weekend, Fake vows included! We all know they're already married though - "groom" spent our whole wedding explaining how dumb weddings are. We're honestly not sure if there will be hosted food or drink even. 

At least they aren't lying about their marital status, I guess.

Serious question. What exactly makes these vows fake? I'm thinking just because they may not be legally binding doesn't mean the vows are fake. I understand people may not agree with a PPD  for whatever reason, but it seems like calling them fake vows are insensitive and could be just as insulting as those PPD brides who call their PPD "the real wedding". 

Have to agree, I'm not sure I understand why stating vows in front of an audience that is your community is such a faux pas, even if the vows have already been given in front of an official. It's a totally different context. Frankly, I think context is immensely relevant -- even requisite -- in the making of a vow. If you make one in private, and break it, who knows? The more people to witness, the graver and more solemn the vow. Particularly if the opinions of the community members matter to you.

The vow is to your spouse. If the only thing keeping you from not breaking your vows is peer pressure, there are bigger issues. Wedding vows are sacred because by saying those words you are actively being transformed from two single people to a married couple  in front of the people you love. 

When people have PPD it diminishes the meaning of those vows. People can then say them at any time without any real meaning behind it. Does the officient say "I now declare you  MORE married?".  It is the act of saying them that makes the couple married, and that gives those vows legitimacy. 

It just becomes play-acting when you are saying them when you have already been married. You can always reaffirm your vows to your spouse, but you don't need an audience. They are fake because the couple is not being married. They can throw a party, make toasts to each other and make promises to each other, but no matter what they say, they are not "wedding vows" because they are already married. The wedding vows only take place when a couple is being wed. 

Wedding wows aren't a driver's license, they don't expire and you don't have to renew them!

I respectfully disagree. As stated before, just because you said the vows previously during your legal ceremony does not mean saying them again during a reaffirmation, PPD, spiritual ceremony or whatever you want to call it suddenly makes those vows fake. And I strongly stand by that saying they are suddenly fake because you said them before is very insensitive because they can be very real to the couple who says them no matter how many times they repeat it to each other. Whether i agree with it or not, I refuse to call any part of someone else's wedding, ceremony or party fake as it can still be very real to the couple. Calling them fake is insensitive and once again no better than brides who have a PPD and refer to their JOP ceremony as fake. So yes, you can be mad because they weren't upfront about letting you know they got married in a JOP ceremony, but it's really not right to say that they are fake because of it.

A vow is a promise.  I am well aware that vows are not like licenses that expire and need to be renewed. Just because vows don't expire or the couple has previously stated them does not mean they are fake.

It's really the performance of such vows in front of an audience that makes it "fake".  I can pledge vows over and over and over again.  I can mean it every single time.  But, having a re-do for the sake of performance, isn't a wedding.   And vow renewals are fine, but they still get side eyed by most thinking people unless there is a valid REASON for doing a vow renewal.  Wanting a new dress or having a PPD just so you can get the gifts and have a big party, gets side eyed. 

People come to a wedding to witness a wedding.  Not to witness a theatrical performance of something that you already did months or years ago.

syoun1nj

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

For the record...these were the "vows"

"When they took their vows four months ago, they had no idea what was in store for them. In the past four months, many thing happened. they got twins - twin puppies! If you promise to honor and cherish each other, say 'we do'" 

I am not opposed to a vow renewal on a big anniversary or after a major event (e.g., tough times, considering divorce, etc). I'm thinking puppies don't qualify for that necessity.

So...they announced that they were in fact married already? did everyone know that going into the "ceremony"? If not everyone knew, that would be quite the shock! 

Did they host you properly?

We knew they were married. I believe everyone knew...They did not keep it a secret. 

There was a cash bar (they put out "rock the cash bar" signs to make it totally cute. there was food (all fried...made me super sick), and there were about 15 barstools and 25 chairs for 80 people. We found out that the restaurant had a minimum of $1500 - they spent $1300 on food and ran a $200 bar tab, which we're pretty sure only went to them as their guests certainly didnt get a single drink on that tab. The FOG peaced out after about an hour. We were in from out of town with a bunch of other friends so we just stayed and drank (we'd be paying for drinks there or another bar, so...). We had fun but not because of how we were hosted.

While I found it all very offensive and rude, what really did drive me insane was that during our wedding the "Groom" kept telling us how dumb weddings are and he'd never have one (they were engaged at our wedding). Well...there was a "ceremony," a photographer, a wedding dress, a DJ, favors, and cake cutting...so......

sardancer

Ladies please don't do this!  I just found out a few days ago about my cousin's PPD, as you guys call it.

About a year and a half ago, my cousin married her fiance in a beautiful ceremony and reception. Everyone was very happy for them. A couple months after the wedding, our grandmother had a health scare and was given just a few weeks to live. It turned out she was misdiagnosed and she is now fine. Afterward, my grandmother told the family that she was going to research our family's genealogy. She said she'd always wanted to do that, but had never gotten around to it. The health scare made her realize if she didn't do it now, she'd never be able to.

So my grandmother started researching. She has recorded several generations worth of births, deaths, etc. and requested copies of all the marriage, death and divorce records in our family. She ordered my cousin's, which had a date over two years prior rather than just over one year. My grandmother was extremely upset and informed the family. My cousin's mother (my aunt) burst into tears when she found out. She couldn't believe her daughter would get married without telling her. Most of my family is upset with my cousin and everyone's relationship is not what it was with my cousin and her husband.

My cousin and I were always really great friends. She was one of my BFFs. Our relationship has suffered a blow. I can't get over the fact that she didn't tell me about one of the biggest things to happen in her life!

Trust me, your family will find out, somehow someway.  Don't lie to your family and friends!

Simply Fated

I feel terrible for your aunt, especially. What a horrible way to find out you've been lied to by your daughter, ya know?
It just goes to show... people can find out the truth and they can be hurt by the lies, even if YOU don't consider it to be a lie.

kitsunegari89

Yeah my parents renewed their vows on their 35th wedding anniversary at their church. Mom wore a cute blue thai silk suit...  I think vow renewals are okay. It's the deception that goes into PPDs that really grinds my gears. Like my cousin still referring to his wife as his fiance on facebook even though we have ALREADY found out about how they "secretly" got married. Um, excuse me cuz... you can't tell our grandmother and expect it to stay a secret for long. She's the mouth of the south. She's blabbed about it to everyone who will listen.  And now his "fiance" is contacting me for "wedding" planning advice. I referred her to this thread which probably means she'll never speak to me again which is fine with me because she's the kind of girl that orders salad with no dressing at an Italian restaurant.

Jells2dot0

mrshutzler said:

Yeah my parents renewed their vows on their 35th wedding anniversary at their church. Mom wore a cute blue thai silk suit...  I think vow renewals are okay. It's the deception that goes into PPDs that really grinds my gears. Like my cousin still referring to his wife as his fiance on facebook even though we have ALREADY found out about how they "secretly" got married. Um, excuse me cuz... you can't tell our grandmother and expect it to stay a secret for long. She's the mouth of the south. She's blabbed about it to everyone who will listen.  And now his "fiance" is contacting me for "wedding" planning advice. I referred her to this thread which probably means she'll never speak to me again which is fine with me because she's the kind of girl that orders salad with no dressing at an Italian restaurant.

LMAO

Jells2dot0

syoun1nj said:

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

For the record...these were the "vows"

"When they took their vows four months ago, they had no idea what was in store for them. In the past four months, many thing happened. they got twins - twin puppies! If you promise to honor and cherish each other, say 'we do'" 

I am not opposed to a vow renewal on a big anniversary or after a major event (e.g., tough times, considering divorce, etc). I'm thinking puppies don't qualify for that necessity.

So...they announced that they were in fact married already? did everyone know that going into the "ceremony"? If not everyone knew, that would be quite the shock! 

Did they host you properly?

We knew they were married. I believe everyone knew...They did not keep it a secret. 

There was a cash bar (they put out "rock the cash bar" signs to make it totally cute. there was food (all fried...made me super sick), and there were about 15 barstools and 25 chairs for 80 people. We found out that the restaurant had a minimum of $1500 - they spent $1300 on food and ran a $200 bar tab, which we're pretty sure only went to them as their guests certainly didnt get a single drink on that tab. The FOG peaced out after about an hour. We were in from out of town with a bunch of other friends so we just stayed and drank (we'd be paying for drinks there or another bar, so...). We had fun but not because of how we were hosted.

While I found it all very offensive and rude, what really did drive me insane was that during our wedding the "Groom" kept telling us how dumb weddings are and he'd never have one (they were engaged at our wedding). Well...there was a "ceremony," a photographer, a wedding dress, a DJ, favors, and cake cutting...so......

I'm sorry they did not host you properly. Especially for a PPD because that just makes it a double etiquette fail.

Emmy1493

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

For the record...these were the "vows"

"When they took their vows four months ago, they had no idea what was in store for them. In the past four months, many thing happened. they got twins - twin puppies! If you promise to honor and cherish each other, say 'we do'" 

I am not opposed to a vow renewal on a big anniversary or after a major event (e.g., tough times, considering divorce, etc). I'm thinking puppies don't qualify for that necessity.

So...they announced that they were in fact married already? did everyone know that going into the "ceremony"? If not everyone knew, that would be quite the shock! 

Did they host you properly?

We knew they were married. I believe everyone knew...They did not keep it a secret. 

There was a cash bar (they put out "rock the cash bar" signs to make it totally cute. there was food (all fried...made me super sick), and there were about 15 barstools and 25 chairs for 80 people. We found out that the restaurant had a minimum of $1500 - they spent $1300 on food and ran a $200 bar tab, which we're pretty sure only went to them as their guests certainly didnt get a single drink on that tab. The FOG peaced out after about an hour. We were in from out of town with a bunch of other friends so we just stayed and drank (we'd be paying for drinks there or another bar, so...). We had fun but not because of how we were hosted.

While I found it all very offensive and rude, what really did drive me insane was that during our wedding the "Groom" kept telling us how dumb weddings are and he'd never have one (they were engaged at our wedding). Well...there was a "ceremony," a photographer, a wedding dress, a DJ, favors, and cake cutting...so......

I'm sorry they did not host you properly. Especially for a PPD because that just makes it a double etiquette fail.

RIGHT? I mean, if your going to have a fake re-do, why not do it right this time? lol

Let's hope they don't see this and decide on a re-do--re-do, so they can fix those mistakes.

crunchymamaof2

Emmy1493 said:

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

For the record...these were the "vows"

"When they took their vows four months ago, they had no idea what was in store for them. In the past four months, many thing happened. they got twins - twin puppies! If you promise to honor and cherish each other, say 'we do'" 

I am not opposed to a vow renewal on a big anniversary or after a major event (e.g., tough times, considering divorce, etc). I'm thinking puppies don't qualify for that necessity.

So...they announced that they were in fact married already? did everyone know that going into the "ceremony"? If not everyone knew, that would be quite the shock! 

Did they host you properly?

We knew they were married. I believe everyone knew...They did not keep it a secret. 

There was a cash bar (they put out "rock the cash bar" signs to make it totally cute. there was food (all fried...made me super sick), and there were about 15 barstools and 25 chairs for 80 people. We found out that the restaurant had a minimum of $1500 - they spent $1300 on food and ran a $200 bar tab, which we're pretty sure only went to them as their guests certainly didnt get a single drink on that tab. The FOG peaced out after about an hour. We were in from out of town with a bunch of other friends so we just stayed and drank (we'd be paying for drinks there or another bar, so...). We had fun but not because of how we were hosted.

While I found it all very offensive and rude, what really did drive me insane was that during our wedding the "Groom" kept telling us how dumb weddings are and he'd never have one (they were engaged at our wedding). Well...there was a "ceremony," a photographer, a wedding dress, a DJ, favors, and cake cutting...so......

I'm sorry they did not host you properly. Especially for a PPD because that just makes it a double etiquette fail.

RIGHT? I mean, if your going to have a fake re-do, why not do it right this time? lol

Let's hope they don't see this and decide on a re-do--re-do, so they can fix those mistakes.

But I want more presents

Inkdancer

crunchymamaof2 said:

Emmy1493 said:

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

For the record...these were the "vows"

"When they took their vows four months ago, they had no idea what was in store for them. In the past four months, many thing happened. they got twins - twin puppies! If you promise to honor and cherish each other, say 'we do'" 

I am not opposed to a vow renewal on a big anniversary or after a major event (e.g., tough times, considering divorce, etc). I'm thinking puppies don't qualify for that necessity.

So...they announced that they were in fact married already? did everyone know that going into the "ceremony"? If not everyone knew, that would be quite the shock! 

Did they host you properly?

We knew they were married. I believe everyone knew...They did not keep it a secret. 

There was a cash bar (they put out "rock the cash bar" signs to make it totally cute. there was food (all fried...made me super sick), and there were about 15 barstools and 25 chairs for 80 people. We found out that the restaurant had a minimum of $1500 - they spent $1300 on food and ran a $200 bar tab, which we're pretty sure only went to them as their guests certainly didnt get a single drink on that tab. The FOG peaced out after about an hour. We were in from out of town with a bunch of other friends so we just stayed and drank (we'd be paying for drinks there or another bar, so...). We had fun but not because of how we were hosted.

While I found it all very offensive and rude, what really did drive me insane was that during our wedding the "Groom" kept telling us how dumb weddings are and he'd never have one (they were engaged at our wedding). Well...there was a "ceremony," a photographer, a wedding dress, a DJ, favors, and cake cutting...so......

I'm sorry they did not host you properly. Especially for a PPD because that just makes it a double etiquette fail.

RIGHT? I mean, if your going to have a fake re-do, why not do it right this time? lol

Let's hope they don't see this and decide on a re-do--re-do, so they can fix those mistakes.

But I want more presents

Oh, that's easy to fix. Get knocked up! Everyone has to give you thousands of presents to fund your new baby that you can't afford on your own!
/end sarcasm

crunchymamaof2

Inkdancer said:

crunchymamaof2 said:

Emmy1493 said:

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

Jells2dot0 said:

syoun1nj said:

For the record...these were the "vows"

"When they took their vows four months ago, they had no idea what was in store for them. In the past four months, many thing happened. they got twins - twin puppies! If you promise to honor and cherish each other, say 'we do'" 

I am not opposed to a vow renewal on a big anniversary or after a major event (e.g., tough times, considering divorce, etc). I'm thinking puppies don't qualify for that necessity.

So...they announced that they were in fact married already? did everyone know that going into the "ceremony"? If not everyone knew, that would be quite the shock! 

Did they host you properly?

We knew they were married. I believe everyone knew...They did not keep it a secret. 

There was a cash bar (they put out "rock the cash bar" signs to make it totally cute. there was food (all fried...made me super sick), and there were about 15 barstools and 25 chairs for 80 people. We found out that the restaurant had a minimum of $1500 - they spent $1300 on food and ran a $200 bar tab, which we're pretty sure only went to them as their guests certainly didnt get a single drink on that tab. The FOG peaced out after about an hour. We were in from out of town with a bunch of other friends so we just stayed and drank (we'd be paying for drinks there or another bar, so...). We had fun but not because of how we were hosted.

While I found it all very offensive and rude, what really did drive me insane was that during our wedding the "Groom" kept telling us how dumb weddings are and he'd never have one (they were engaged at our wedding). Well...there was a "ceremony," a photographer, a wedding dress, a DJ, favors, and cake cutting...so......

I'm sorry they did not host you properly. Especially for a PPD because that just makes it a double etiquette fail.

RIGHT? I mean, if your going to have a fake re-do, why not do it right this time? lol

Let's hope they don't see this and decide on a re-do--re-do, so they can fix those mistakes.

But I want more presents

Oh, that's easy to fix. Get knocked up! Everyone has to give you thousands of presents to fund your new baby that you can't afford on your own!
/end sarcasm

Hmmm good idea! We already have 2 so another one, especially if a girl, will rake us in some money. Especially if we can't afford the two we have! (Gag me, please)