Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

ashleyep

perdonami said:

@chibiyui As a Zelda fan myself, when I saw your gif I giggled to myself. If you weren't familiar with this game and just got through reading a lot of the comments on this thread you may become confused and think its an attack on those who disagree with a PPD as bad etiquette. Although, I don't see any knives or any indication of a fight scene.

Not trying to rile anyone up here or change the subject away from PPD's, but sometimes these threads do get a little out of control. I have seen some first time posters eaten alive when they ask about something they didn't know was bad etiquette. And I am fairly new myself so I am also unaware of how often newbies come on here and pick fights with folks who may have gently explained etiquette to the point they are just sick to death of explaining proper etiquette to someone who is overly defensive and therefore just don't care about the delivery of the message, just the message itself. Which if I am right, I can totally understand that frustration.

Although I wouldn't call any of this bullying but I could see how someone may feel uncomfortable posting questions on this site after reading a thread like this. Of course this thread has reached levels of ridiculousness that I have never seen before. 

However, despite some of the ridiculousness and circular arguments, I think this thread has been very helpful to those who would like to gather some ideas on how to celebrate their marriage without offending their guests. There are ways to celebrate your union with your guests and loved ones without lying or being rude to them. Sure, it may not be exactly what you dreamed of your whole life, but you can still have a lovely and special day. 

I'm not very new here, and I agree with you about this comment. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that we answer the same questions over and over and thus tend to resort to curt answers rather than repeating the same long-winded response over and over again. Plus with all the people arguing over why their idea is actually perfectly acceptable - even when it's obviously against etiquette - we tend to put our defenses up right away. That being said, I do agree that these boards have an attitude and it's almost a competition to outsnark one another.

ohannabelle

karimichele13 said: ohannabelle said: @Molly12345 said: One can choose to be offended this decision or chose to support them and understand that for them it is important to have a real wedding....
Really? Why, thank you. I was married 32 years ago by a JOP, quietly, with only our two best friends to witness. I am so grateful to know that this wasn't a "real" wedding. I have been operating under the silly assumption that our wedding was genuine in every respect and it never occurred to me that I needed a big dress and a big reenactment with a live audience to make it "real."  Actually in some communities, this would not be recognized socially. As was addressed quite eloquently by AroundtheBlock on page 26 (geez this really has been going on forever) ""Marriage" certainly does have a legal dimension. It is, however, observed by anthropologists to exist across all human cultures, in varying forms, including cultures that do not have a legal system, cultures in which the legal system does not address marriage, and cultures (like the twenty-first century west) where social marriage can and does exist separate from legal marriage."

Specifically this means in certain communities another ceremony would be required to religously and socially recognize a legal union.

True story, even in the US in 2014

You made a good research effort, but futile. We don't live in a society that doesn't address legal marriage, and we don't live in a community that requires a separate religious ceremony. I haven't seen a suggested PPD for religious reasons on this board. 

 

If, like Mrs STB...excuse me, I mean Molly123, you're trying to suggest that my marriage wasn't "real," because it didn't contain traditional trappings, than you are rude as well as wrong. And your argument is irrelevant. This is about etiquette in the 21st century. 

DaisyMaeMommy

perdonami said:

@chibiyui As a Zelda fan myself, when I saw your gif I giggled to myself. If you weren't familiar with this game and just got through reading a lot of the comments on this thread you may become confused and think its an attack on those who disagree with a PPD as bad etiquette. Although, I don't see any knives or any indication of a fight scene.

Not trying to rile anyone up here or change the subject away from PPD's, but sometimes these threads do get a little out of control. I have seen some first time posters eaten alive when they ask about something they didn't know was bad etiquette. And I am fairly new myself so I am also unaware of how often newbies come on here and pick fights with folks who may have gently explained etiquette to the point they are just sick to death of explaining proper etiquette to someone who is overly defensive and therefore just don't care about the delivery of the message, just the message itself. Which if I am right, I can totally understand that frustration.

Although I wouldn't call any of this bullying but I could see how someone may feel uncomfortable posting questions on this site after reading a thread like this. Of course this thread has reached levels of ridiculousness that I have never seen before. 

However, despite some of the ridiculousness and circular arguments, I think this thread has been very helpful to those who would like to gather some ideas on how to celebrate their marriage without offending their guests. There are ways to celebrate your union with your guests and loved ones without lying or being rude to them. Sure, it may not be exactly what you dreamed of your whole life, but you can still have a lovely and special day. 

I disagree. Many of these ladies answer politely and respectfully, until OP decides to go off on a rant about how it's "Her Special Day" and so on. Then things get out of hand. 

Many newbies come on here and post useless questions when we have stickies that answer most of their questions at the top of every board! If people actually took the time to use their brains and READ, we wouldn't have as many useless questions posted.

Obviously, not everyone asks the same questions. When there are questions that pop up and haven't been addressed before, they get answered. Most of them are answered with simple, truthful answers. What's so wrong with that?

karimichele

ohannabelle said:

karimichele13 said:

ohannabelle said:

@Molly12345 said: One can choose to be offended this decision or chose to support them and understand that for them it is important to have a real wedding....

Really? Why, thank you. I was married 32 years ago by a JOP, quietly, with only our two best friends to witness. I am so grateful to know that this wasn't a "real" wedding. I have been operating under the silly assumption that our wedding was genuine in every respect and it never occurred to me that I needed a big dress and a big reenactment with a live audience to make it "real." 

Actually in some communities, this would not be recognized socially. As was addressed quite eloquently by AroundtheBlock on page 26 (geez this really has been going on forever) ""Marriage" certainly does have a legal dimension. It is, however, observed by anthropologists to exist across all human cultures, in varying forms, including cultures that do not have a legal system, cultures in which the legal system does not address marriage, and cultures (like the twenty-first century west) where social marriage can and does exist separate from legal marriage."

Specifically this means in certain communities another ceremony would be required to religously and socially recognize a legal union.

True story, even in the US in 2014

You made a good research effort, but futile. We don't live in a society that doesn't address legal marriage, and we don't live in a community that requires a separate religious ceremony. I haven't seen a suggested PPD for religious reasons on this board. 

 

If, like Mrs STB...excuse me, I mean Molly123, you're trying to suggest that my marriage wasn't "real," because it didn't contain traditional trappings, than you are rude as well as wrong. And your argument is irrelevant. This is about etiquette in the 21st century. 

No one said your marriage isn't real.

However, if you were my grandmother's child, she most certainly would have said that and would have insisted that you have a religious ceremony to make it real.

Cultural differences regarding this issue in the United States actually do exist.

LDay2014

karimichele13 said:

ohannabelle said:

karimichele13 said:

ohannabelle said:

@Molly12345 said: One can choose to be offended this decision or chose to support them and understand that for them it is important to have a real wedding....

Really? Why, thank you. I was married 32 years ago by a JOP, quietly, with only our two best friends to witness. I am so grateful to know that this wasn't a "real" wedding. I have been operating under the silly assumption that our wedding was genuine in every respect and it never occurred to me that I needed a big dress and a big reenactment with a live audience to make it "real." 

Actually in some communities, this would not be recognized socially. As was addressed quite eloquently by AroundtheBlock on page 26 (geez this really has been going on forever) ""Marriage" certainly does have a legal dimension. It is, however, observed by anthropologists to exist across all human cultures, in varying forms, including cultures that do not have a legal system, cultures in which the legal system does not address marriage, and cultures (like the twenty-first century west) where social marriage can and does exist separate from legal marriage."

Specifically this means in certain communities another ceremony would be required to religously and socially recognize a legal union.

True story, even in the US in 2014

You made a good research effort, but futile. We don't live in a society that doesn't address legal marriage, and we don't live in a community that requires a separate religious ceremony. I haven't seen a suggested PPD for religious reasons on this board. 

 

If, like Mrs STB...excuse me, I mean Molly123, you're trying to suggest that my marriage wasn't "real," because it didn't contain traditional trappings, than you are rude as well as wrong. And your argument is irrelevant. This is about etiquette in the 21st century. 

No one said your marriage isn't real.

However, if you were my grandmother's child, she most certainly would have said that and would have insisted that you have a religious ceremony to make it real.

Cultural differences regarding this issue in the United States actually do exist.
Cultural yes, but you sure as hell better not be claiming any sort of spousal benefit if you haven't signed that 'useless' piece of paper.

Cut the shit and quit lying to people - and using bullshit, obscure, and completely irrelevant references to prove a very simple point.  If you love these people be honest with them. 

End of story.

Jells2dot0

karimichele13 said:

ohannabelle said:

karimichele13 said:

ohannabelle said:

@Molly12345 said: One can choose to be offended this decision or chose to support them and understand that for them it is important to have a real wedding....

Really? Why, thank you. I was married 32 years ago by a JOP, quietly, with only our two best friends to witness. I am so grateful to know that this wasn't a "real" wedding. I have been operating under the silly assumption that our wedding was genuine in every respect and it never occurred to me that I needed a big dress and a big reenactment with a live audience to make it "real." 

Actually in some communities, this would not be recognized socially. As was addressed quite eloquently by AroundtheBlock on page 26 (geez this really has been going on forever) ""Marriage" certainly does have a legal dimension. It is, however, observed by anthropologists to exist across all human cultures, in varying forms, including cultures that do not have a legal system, cultures in which the legal system does not address marriage, and cultures (like the twenty-first century west) where social marriage can and does exist separate from legal marriage."

Specifically this means in certain communities another ceremony would be required to religously and socially recognize a legal union.

True story, even in the US in 2014

You made a good research effort, but futile. We don't live in a society that doesn't address legal marriage, and we don't live in a community that requires a separate religious ceremony. I haven't seen a suggested PPD for religious reasons on this board. 

 

If, like Mrs STB...excuse me, I mean Molly123, you're trying to suggest that my marriage wasn't "real," because it didn't contain traditional trappings, than you are rude as well as wrong. And your argument is irrelevant. This is about etiquette in the 21st century. 

No one said your marriage isn't real.

However, if you were my grandmother's child, she most certainly would have said that and would have insisted that you have a religious ceremony to make it real.

Cultural differences regarding this issue in the United States actually do exist.

I understand that religion is an important part of some people's lives, but it's not to everyone. It's rude for anyone religious to claim that someone's marriage is not real because it wasn't a religious ceremony. That is a matter of opinion and not facts.

I got married in a traditional religious ceremony at a church back in 2004. I was married all of two years. I am currently remarried following a ceremony on a beach conducted by a civil celebrant. So, was my first marriage more real than my current marriage? Certainly didn't work out that way for me! If for some reason I ever end up divorced again, the courts will certainly think my second marriage is real. I won't be able to avoid filing for divoce and paying all of those fees!

Again, I realize noone was saying that a JOP wedding isn't real, but it is all you need in this country to have the marriage legally recognized. So, anyone who thinks it's not enough is just stating their opinion. There are so many ways people can be offended by throwing their opinion out there. The religious person is offended by JOP weddings; the couple who had the JOP wedding may be offended by the person who is offended for religious reasons. Of course, the couple who didn't think their JOP wedding was real may offended their guests when they try to re-do the wedding.

What a mess... *sigh*

NYCBruin

karimichele13 said:

ohannabelle said:

karimichele13 said:

ohannabelle said:

@Molly12345 said: One can choose to be offended this decision or chose to support them and understand that for them it is important to have a real wedding....

Really? Why, thank you. I was married 32 years ago by a JOP, quietly, with only our two best friends to witness. I am so grateful to know that this wasn't a "real" wedding. I have been operating under the silly assumption that our wedding was genuine in every respect and it never occurred to me that I needed a big dress and a big reenactment with a live audience to make it "real." 

Actually in some communities, this would not be recognized socially. As was addressed quite eloquently by AroundtheBlock on page 26 (geez this really has been going on forever) ""Marriage" certainly does have a legal dimension. It is, however, observed by anthropologists to exist across all human cultures, in varying forms, including cultures that do not have a legal system, cultures in which the legal system does not address marriage, and cultures (like the twenty-first century west) where social marriage can and does exist separate from legal marriage."

Specifically this means in certain communities another ceremony would be required to religously and socially recognize a legal union.

True story, even in the US in 2014

You made a good research effort, but futile. We don't live in a society that doesn't address legal marriage, and we don't live in a community that requires a separate religious ceremony. I haven't seen a suggested PPD for religious reasons on this board. 

 

If, like Mrs STB...excuse me, I mean Molly123, you're trying to suggest that my marriage wasn't "real," because it didn't contain traditional trappings, than you are rude as well as wrong. And your argument is irrelevant. This is about etiquette in the 21st century. 

No one said your marriage isn't real.

However, if you were my grandmother's child, she most certainly would have said that and would have insisted that you have a religious ceremony to make it real.

Cultural differences regarding this issue in the United States actually do exist.
1.  Your grandmother does not make a "culture"

2.  Yes, there are people who think the religious aspect of marriage is the important part.  These people get married in churches and not by a JOP. If you don't think you're married until you've had your church ceremony, then why are you getting legally married first?  You're either lying to god or the government since you can't be both married and not married at the same time.

3.  As a Catholic, sure, I know there are convalidations, but these are usually for people who had fallen away from the church at the time they got married and later reconnect with the church and have a convalidation to come back into communion with the church.  They aren't excuses to have a do-over wedding.  

PrettyGirlLost

Molly12345 said:

I have to say I find it pretty funny that the most vocal haters of PPDs are already married... In one case for THREE YEARS and are still posting on snarky bride blogs... When this issue came up at weddings wire the minister pointed out that there is a clear difference between a marriage and wedding. There is nothing wrong with marrying in private and having a public wedding with friends and family. According to ms. Post of the Emily post institute the key is to word the invitation to say its a wedding celebration and not marriage. People on this thread don't seem to understand there IS a difference between a marriage and wedding. Lastly, it's pretty funny that !regulars' are hating on 'trolls'. Who would pride thusly on being a yearly regular on a snarky bride forum? Isn't the point to be a newbie, get the advice, have the wedding and MOVE ON???

I know I'm late to this, but who in the fuck are you going to get advice from if people who have already planned their wedding and gotten married don't stick around?

Other clueless newbs?  Yeah that ought to work out well.

ohannabelle

PrettyGirlLost said:

Molly12345 said:

I have to say I find it pretty funny that the most vocal haters of PPDs are already married... In one case for THREE YEARS and are still posting on snarky bride blogs... When this issue came up at weddings wire the minister pointed out that there is a clear difference between a marriage and wedding. There is nothing wrong with marrying in private and having a public wedding with friends and family. According to ms. Post of the Emily post institute the key is to word the invitation to say its a wedding celebration and not marriage. People on this thread don't seem to understand there IS a difference between a marriage and wedding. Lastly, it's pretty funny that !regulars' are hating on 'trolls'. Who would pride thusly on being a yearly regular on a snarky bride forum? Isn't the point to be a newbie, get the advice, have the wedding and MOVE ON???

I know I'm late to this, but who in the fuck are you going to get advice from if people who have already planned their wedding and gotten married don't stick around?

Other clueless newbs?  Yeah that ought to work out well.

Also, there it is, ladies. No more priding thusly.

DestinationWeddingHIC

@ PrettyGirlLost - good point! I would like advice from people who've planned their weddings. Not from people telling me that my friends were wrong. To be honest though most of my advice has come from my friends who have gotten married. I do find this site useful for inspiration. I don't find many people on this thread speaking out THEIR OWN experiences expect for Jells2dot0. I wish more people would speak about their own "real weddings" and why they did things that way. 

Also I AM NOT Ms S t whatever. I have no idea what that is about.

Lastly- I've never, nor has one else said a legal JOP marriage isn't a "real wedding". Never.

I've said for some people (the one's I know) it didn't feel real because they did not realize many of the benefits of marriage nor did they feel the same way emotionally that they did when they had their large wedding/part in which they said their vows. (For example someone who signed papers days before flying off to Italy for a destination wedding who hasn't had time to realize the benefits).

I've said from the beginning that JOPS are lovely and that my best friend had one. However, some people don't feel its "real" and feel - wrongly some would say- that to be real you must say your vows in front of friends and family in a ceremony. From speaking to friends, the emotional investment in the later "fake" ceremony is much higher than the first. That is how they felt. Therefore, they viewed the second ceremony as real. That's it folks. Its just an opinion.

I understand many of you disagree and that's fine. I personally found out 1 that a large wedding/party (400+) was a PPD on the way to the wedding. I was absolutely fine with it as was everyone else in the car with me. I would have also been fine with not knowing they had been married for months. To the point earlier- it was a religion ceremony in their religion with the first was only civil.

I wish everyone the best of luck in their real marriages that it seems most people are in. I hope you all enjoyed your wedding- I know from reading her posts @jells2dot0 did- and it looks lovely.

I have never explained my situation before but will now. I went on this site because I am a bridesmaid in three weddings this summer one of which is a "ppd" and I'm one of only 5 people who know. I will not pressure the couple to divulge this information. It is their choice. As for me, I'm getting married in about a year. I might or might not get legally married first, I haven't yet decided it depends on where I get married and what my FIs situation will be. Luckily, we get to split out time between DC and Paris. I'll probably speak to my friends and family who will attend to see what their thoughts are and then decide.

Jen4948

confusionabounds said:

@ PrettyGirlLost - good point! I would like advice from people who've planned their weddings. Not from people telling me that my friends were wrong. To be honest though most of my advice has come from my friends who have gotten married. I do find this site useful for inspiration. I don't find many people on this thread speaking out THEIR OWN experiences expect for Jells2dot0. I wish more people would speak about their own "real weddings" and why they did things that way. 

Also I AM NOT Ms S t whatever. I have no idea what that is about.

Lastly- I've never, nor has one else said a legal JOP marriage isn't a "real wedding". Never.

I've said for some people (the one's I know) it didn't feel real because they did not realize many of the benefits of marriage nor did they feel the same way emotionally that they did when they had their large wedding/part in which they said their vows. (For example someone who signed papers days before flying off to Italy for a destination wedding who hasn't had time to realize the benefits).

I've said from the beginning that JOPS are lovely and that my best friend had one. However, some people don't feel its "real" and feel - wrongly some would say- that to be real you must say your vows in front of friends and family in a ceremony. From speaking to friends, the emotional investment in the later "fake" ceremony is much higher than the first. That is how they felt. Therefore, they viewed the second ceremony as real. That's it folks. Its just an opinion.

I understand many of you disagree and that's fine. I personally found out 1 that a large wedding/party (400+) was a PPD on the way to the wedding. I was absolutely fine with it as was everyone else in the car with me. I would have also been fine with not knowing they had been married for months. To the point earlier- it was a religion ceremony in their religion with the first was only civil.

I wish everyone the best of luck in their real marriages that it seems most people are in. I hope you all enjoyed your wedding- I know from reading her posts @jells2dot0 did- and it looks lovely.

I have never explained my situation before but will now. I went on this site because I am a bridesmaid in three weddings this summer one of which is a "ppd" and I'm one of only 5 people who know. I will not pressure the couple to divulge this information. It is their choice. As for me, I'm getting married in about a year. I might or might not get legally married first, I haven't yet decided it depends on where I get married and what my FIs situation will be. Luckily, we get to split out time between DC and Paris. I'll probably speak to my friends and family who will attend to see what their thoughts are and then decide.

Opinions don't constitute etiquette.  When we give out answers to etiquette questions (and that includes questions about "legal" ceremonies followed by so-called "real" ceremonies later), we are not giving our "opinions."  Etiquette constitutes generally accepted rules about what is and what is not acceptable in society.  It is not "opinions."  Rude is rude.

NYCBruin

confusionabounds said:

I have never explained my situation before but will now. I went on this site because I am a bridesmaid in three two weddings this summer one of which is a "ppd" and I'm one of only 5 people who know. I will not pressure the couple to divulge this information. It is their choice. As for me, I'm getting married in about a year. I might or might not get legally married first, I haven't yet decided it depends on where I get married and what my FIs situation will be. Luckily, we get to split out time between DC and Paris. I'll probably speak to my friends and family who will attend to see what their thoughts are and then decide.

You can't be a bridesmaid for someone who is already married.  She's not a bride.

You get married once.  If you get married before next year, you can have a vow renewal or a celebration of your marriage, but you can't actually "get married" if you're already "legally married".

Jells2dot0

confusionabounds said:

@ PrettyGirlLost - good point! I would like advice from people who've planned their weddings. Not from people telling me that my friends were wrong. To be honest though most of my advice has come from my friends who have gotten married. I do find this site useful for inspiration. I don't find many people on this thread speaking out THEIR OWN experiences expect for Jells2dot0. I wish more people would speak about their own "real weddings" and why they did things that way. 

Also I AM NOT Ms S t whatever. I have no idea what that is about.

Lastly- I've never, nor has one else said a legal JOP marriage isn't a "real wedding". Never.

I've said for some people (the one's I know) it didn't feel real because they did not realize many of the benefits of marriage nor did they feel the same way emotionally that they did when they had their large wedding/part in which they said their vows. (For example someone who signed papers days before flying off to Italy for a destination wedding who hasn't had time to realize the benefits).

I've said from the beginning that JOPS are lovely and that my best friend had one. However, some people don't feel its "real" and feel - wrongly some would say- that to be real you must say your vows in front of friends and family in a ceremony. From speaking to friends, the emotional investment in the later "fake" ceremony is much higher than the first. That is how they felt. Therefore, they viewed the second ceremony as real. That's it folks. Its just an opinion.

I understand many of you disagree and that's fine. I personally found out 1 that a large wedding/party (400+) was a PPD on the way to the wedding. I was absolutely fine with it as was everyone else in the car with me. I would have also been fine with not knowing they had been married for months. To the point earlier- it was a religion ceremony in their religion with the first was only civil.

I wish everyone the best of luck in their real marriages that it seems most people are in. I hope you all enjoyed your wedding- I know from reading her posts @jells2dot0 did- and it looks lovely.

I have never explained my situation before but will now. I went on this site because I am a bridesmaid in three weddings this summer one of which is a "ppd" and I'm one of only 5 people who know. I will not pressure the couple to divulge this information. It is their choice. As for me, I'm getting married in about a year. I might or might not get legally married first, I haven't yet decided it depends on where I get married and what my FIs situation will be. Luckily, we get to split out time between DC and Paris. I'll probably speak to my friends and family who will attend to see what their thoughts are and then decide.

Thank you so much for your kind words. I was very fortunate and blessed to be able to have my dream wedding. I wish others the same. 

I try to hammer home some specific points based on my own experiences of having planned a large, traditional, luxury wedding and a small, intimate, elopement. Having done it both ways and at different points in my life, I can see certain aspects that, to me, are not necessary to have a strong, successful, and meaningful marriage. I think we, as a society, sometimes lose the meaning and purpose of a wedding and focus on things like money, parties, and gifts rather than the relationship of the couple. Instead of celebrating love, life, and commitment, we're witnessing people being lied to, families being torn apart (like mine, for example), and pure greed. I'm guilty as charged with putting the party first and try to use my insight and experiences to assist others. 

PrettyGirlLost

Molly12345 said:

More often than not, the people engaging in PPD's are doing so because they secretly wed to obtain government benefits only afforded married couples. This is not true. Many simple want the same rights as NON MARRIED couples. 

The problem here is there seems to be a pass for same sex couples who are PROHIBITED from marrying in their own states. This is correct- any form of marriage discrimination, including towards the LGBT community is absolutely horrid and disgusting.

However- there seems to be no understanding that MANY people of DIFFERENT NATIONALITIES (ie American/ Non-EU) who legal wed do NOT want or take any benefits (medical, housing etc.) but want the SAME benefits afforded to non-married EU couples or American couples which is SIMPLY TO BE ON THE SAME CONTINENT!

karimichele13 as well this is the case. They simply want want other NON MARRIED couples have. 

How is it that discrimination against one community is frowned upon but not another?

All these couples want is the right to stay on the same continent as their SO, a right UNLIKE medical insurance, hospital visitation etc. they WOULD have if they were UNMARRIED but the same citizenry. 

People who want the same rights as the unmarried (to be on the same continent as their SO) are told on this site they have a choice between having rights that unmarried Americans, Canadians and other EU citizens have or having a wedding and that is wrong. 

It is not the same as getting married for a benefit you can only have if you are married as this benefit- being on the same continent - is one afforded to millions who are not married.   Yeah because we are frigging legal, US citizens.  All countries have immigration laws, we are not unique.

There is outrage and a "pass" given when same sex couples cannot get married, but no outrage for different citizenship couples who cannot stay on the same continent due to political issues...   There's no outrage because there are no laws banning ppl in the US from marrying ppl from other countries, like there are laws in states that ban same sex marriage between legal, US citizens.  People in the US are free to marry foreigners, however you have to follow our frigging immigration laws.  (The same political issues that have perpetuate bigotry against same sex couples).  Our US immigration laws have nothing to do with the bigoted laws that ban same sex marriage.

If your SO is not a legal, US citizen and you want to be on the same continent as your SO then your choices are 1.)you go to your SO"s country of origin on a visitor's Visa and visit them, 2) your SO comes to this country on a visitor's Visa and visits you, or 3.) you both follow all of the legal rules to get married and have your SO become a naturalized US citizen.

I'm sorry if you feel that our laws are keeping you from your SO but they exist to keep people from abusing our immigration system just to gain entry into this country.  I am sure the immigration laws of other countries are enforced for the same reasons.

The US immigration laws are in no way comparable to the laws that ban same sex marriage between legal, US citizens and to try to draw a comparison in order to justify a fucking PPD is ridiculously offensive to me.

Marrying someone from outside the US might take time and be difficult, but it absolutely can be done, and then your spouse can become a naturalized US citizen entitled to all of our government benefits.  Just because the process is difficult in no way entitles couples to a PPD.

In the majority of states two people of the same sex absolutely cannot get married and enjoy the same benefits of a person and her foreign spouse.

PrettyGirlLost

confusionabounds said:

@ PrettyGirlLost - good point! I would like advice from people who've planned their weddings. Not from people telling me that my friends were wrong. To be honest though most of my advice has come from my friends who have gotten married. I do find this site useful for inspiration. I don't find many people on this thread speaking out THEIR OWN experiences expect for Jells2dot0. I wish more people would speak about their own "real weddings" and why they did things that way. 

Also I AM NOT Ms S t whatever. I have no idea what that is about.

Lastly- I've never, nor has one else said a legal JOP marriage isn't a "real wedding". Never.

I've said for some people (the one's I know) it didn't feel real because they did not realize many of the benefits of marriage nor did they feel the same way emotionally that they did when they had their large wedding/part in which they said their vows. (For example someone who signed papers days before flying off to Italy for a destination wedding who hasn't had time to realize the benefits).

I've said from the beginning that JOPS are lovely and that my best friend had one. However, some people don't feel its "real" and feel - wrongly some would say- that to be real you must say your vows in front of friends and family in a ceremony. From speaking to friends, the emotional investment in the later "fake" ceremony is much higher than the first. That is how they felt. Therefore, they viewed the second ceremony as real. That's it folks. Its just an opinion.

I understand many of you disagree and that's fine. I personally found out 1 that a large wedding/party (400+) was a PPD on the way to the wedding. I was absolutely fine with it as was everyone else in the car with me. I would have also been fine with not knowing they had been married for months. To the point earlier- it was a religion ceremony in their religion with the first was only civil.

I wish everyone the best of luck in their real marriages that it seems most people are in. I hope you all enjoyed your wedding- I know from reading her posts @jells2dot0 did- and it looks lovely.

I have never explained my situation before but will now. I went on this site because I am a bridesmaid in three weddings this summer one of which is a "ppd" and I'm one of only 5 people who know. I will not pressure the couple to divulge this information. It is their choice. As for me, I'm getting married in about a year. I might or might not get legally married first, I haven't yet decided it depends on where I get married and what my FIs situation will be. Luckily, we get to split out time between DC and Paris. I'll probably speak to my friends and family who will attend to see what their thoughts are and then decide.

I'm getting married in October and I'm going to be legally and religiously married on the same day, at the same time.  My guests are going to actually witness my marriage.

JCbride2015

PrettyGirlLost said:

Molly12345 said:

I have to say I find it pretty funny that the most vocal haters of PPDs are already married... In one case for THREE YEARS and are still posting on snarky bride blogs... When this issue came up at weddings wire the minister pointed out that there is a clear difference between a marriage and wedding. There is nothing wrong with marrying in private and having a public wedding with friends and family. According to ms. Post of the Emily post institute the key is to word the invitation to say its a wedding celebration and not marriage. People on this thread don't seem to understand there IS a difference between a marriage and wedding. Lastly, it's pretty funny that !regulars' are hating on 'trolls'. Who would pride thusly on being a yearly regular on a snarky bride forum? Isn't the point to be a newbie, get the advice, have the wedding and MOVE ON???

I know I'm late to this, but who in the fuck are you going to get advice from if people who have already planned their wedding and gotten married don't stick around?

Other clueless newbs?  Yeah that ought to work out well.

Isn't this what we are all saying this whole time?

Just call it a celebration of your marriage.  Don't lie.  Don't re-enact a fake wedding.  Have your big party.

perdonami

I almost eloped with FI a year ago. He needed health insurance and I wasn't sure I wanted a formal wedding. Called local courthouse and requested an appointment to get legally married. The kind clerk began to describe the process and said I can have up 6 people to witness the ceremony. 

Dumbfounded, I said, "What? What do you mean ceremony?" The lady assumed then I wanted to request a license to be signed by an officiant on different date and I didn't need a JOP. I apologized and said we need some more time to discuss this and cancelled our appointment. I cancelled it because FI's mother was hospitalized and was unable to be around other people. I  knew how important it was for her to see her son get married.. So, we decided to wait for her, no matter what kind of wedding we chose to have. 

I am pretty sure she would have been absolutely heartbroken if we lied to her and others as to when we actually got married.

Just trying to offer another perspective and I don't think Molly is also STB.

ohannabelle

No, not the same person, but twins in the illogical argument/ disregard for etiquette/ if you can't be right be persistent department. Identical brick walls. 

KGold80

My FI and I are both atheists and will thus be having a civil ceremony in front of all of our nearest and dearest family and friends. If anyone tells us we're not *really* married because we didn't have a religious ceremony I will punch them in the throat.

If you're religious, just saying the vows isn't enough to make you married in the eyes of the law. You still have to sign the paperwork. Why not do both on the same day and call it good? Why have a civil ceremony and then say it's not good enough so you can then have a big farce of a wedding with all of the trappings? Life isn't about instant gratification. Sometimes you have to wait for things or compromise. If you can't afford a big wedding when you decide to get married, make peace with your lot in life and let go of the childhood fantasy of your "perfect" wedding. And if you're Christian and are LYING to your friends and family about when you actually got married so you can play dress up, isn't that in direct opposition of the teachings of your church? HYPOCRITE.

dwhereicome

@ Jells2dot0 -  we don't see eye to eye but you've always given great advice based on your experience which I appreciate. You also deliver your advice with class and without violence. I'm always more willing to listen to brides who loved their wedding day and want others to love theirs.

KGold80

Molly12345 said:

@ Jells2dot0 -  we don't see eye to eye but you've always given great advice based on your experience which I appreciate. You also deliver your advice with class and without violence. I'm always more willing to listen to brides who loved their wedding day and want others to love theirs.

Shouldn't that be plural unless one genuinely doesn't count?

dwhereicome

My point about immigration was misconstrued.

It was simply that some people didn't want privileges only married people can have, but privileges many unmarried people have (such as living on the same continent). Therefore, because many unmarried people have that privilege, when those couples are given that privilege rightly or wrongly, they don't necessarily feel they are "married" because they are simply being given the same privilege that many unmarried couples have.

KGold80

Molly12345 said:

My point about immigration was misconstrued.

It was simply that some people didn't want privileges only married people can have, but privileges many unmarried people have (such as living on the same continent). Therefore, because many unmarried people have that privilege, when those couples are given that privilege rightly or wrongly, they don't necessarily feel they are "married" because they are simply being given the same privilege that many unmarried couples have.

I want you to really look at this argument and rethink how it comes across when a large number of US citizens are unable to be legally married in their home state because they happen to be the same sex, and what makes matters worse - even if they are legally married in a different state, that marriage is sometimes not recognized in the state in which they reside and pay taxes the same as anyone else. Your argument is ridiculous in the face of such inequality and honestly, I find it shameful. The fact remains that you cannot have your cake and eat it too without looking like someone who just needs to prance around in a pretty dress in order to feel married when in fact, you are already married in the eyes of the law. Be grateful for the simple fact that you are able to get married in the first place, regardless of the form that takes when it happens.

MobKaz

Molly12345 said:

@ Jells2dot0 -  we don't see eye to eye but you've always given great advice based on your experience which I appreciate. You also deliver your advice with class and without violence. I'm always more willing to listen to brides who loved their wedding day and want others to love theirs.

Violence? Please indicate the posts you designated as violent.

crunchymamaof2

There are other ways to live on the same continent besides getting married. If that's the only reason you're getting married, or the excuse you're using to have a ppd, it's time to reevaluate your life.

Jells2dot0

Molly12345 said:

@ Jells2dot0 -  we don't see eye to eye but you've always given great advice based on your experience which I appreciate. You also deliver your advice with class and without violence. I'm always more willing to listen to brides who loved their wedding day and want others to love theirs.

Thank you. 

I do honestly want people to love their wedding day as much as I loved mine, but I want people to love it for all of the right reasons. That includes recognizing that the actual legal marriage itself (if one is able to legally get married) is a very special moment!!! For some people, just signing the papers is their dream wedding. I DO NOT believe it should be anyone's dream to spend tens of thousands of dollars to put on a show because the actual event wasn't what they wanted. I DO think it's okay to spend money to host your loved ones properly to celebrate a event. I think people forget that the marriage is the event being celebrated and NOT the dress, venue, flowers, or dancing.

For those who had bigger dreams but those dreams aren't very realistic given their situations- it's part of the ebb and flow of life that sometimes we cannot have everything we thought we wanted. Or maybe everything we thought we wanted isn't the right thing to do, even if you can make it happen. If something doesn't go "our way", we just need to accept it, learn from our mistakes/decisions, focus our energies on improving things in the future, and move on. 

As for using the term "violence", I'm not sure that was really the right way to describe the nature of the posts in this thread. There have been times where posters have crossed the line, but most of the women on here give fantastic advice and this thread is no exception. Things do get tense when posters just do not care if they are rude to their family and guests. The regulars on here take offense to that, not just as fellow brides, but as guests of weddings, family members of couples getting married, and just general members of society. This is an etiquette board, afterall, and proper etiquette is a passion on here. 

mrs4everhart

ohannabelle said:

No, not the same person, but twins in the illogical argument/ disregard for etiquette/ if you can't be right be persistent department. Identical brick walls. 

Your not liking something or agreeing with it doesn't necessarily make something illogical. We've applied a ton of logic to our situation and are satisfied with the outcome. As for disregarding etiquette, I look at it like I do everything else, what makes sense for us, what will have the best outcome, how would I feel if treated in XYZ manner. Just because there's a rule about something doesn't mean I'm going to follow it. I'm a fan of exercising free will like that. And I continue in my persistence because I hate  the thought of people coming on here for advice and really believing some of this complete garbage just because they find themselves in less than ideal circumstances. 

Jells2dot0

STBMrsEverhart said:

ohannabelle said:

No, not the same person, but twins in the illogical argument/ disregard for etiquette/ if you can't be right be persistent department. Identical brick walls. 

Your not liking something or agreeing with it doesn't necessarily make something illogical. We've applied a ton of logic to our situation and are satisfied with the outcome. As for disregarding etiquette, I look at it like I do everything else, what makes sense for us, what will have the best outcome, how would I feel if treated in XYZ manner. Just because there's a rule about something doesn't mean I'm going to follow it. I'm a fan of exercising free will like that. And I continue in my persistence because I hate  the thought of people coming on here for advice and really believing some of this complete garbage just because they find themselves in less than ideal circumstances. 

Ironic that you feel so strongly about free will when you won't give your guests the same courtesy. 

KGold80

I find it very difficult to accept that those of you who lie about your marital status and throw a big fake wedding truly believe in your heart of hearts that what you are doing is okay. If that were the case you wouldn't feel the need to lie about it. While I think it's stupid that people would have a big to-do after they chose to get married in a courthouse, at least those who are honest about it are worthy of some respect. I have ZERO respect for the rest. It's despicable.

MobKaz

KGold80 said:

I find it very difficult to accept that those of you who lie about your marital status and throw a big fake wedding truly believe in your heart of hearts that what you are doing is okay. If that were the case you wouldn't feel the need to lie about it. While I think it's stupid that people would have a big to-do after they chose to get married in a courthouse, at least those who are honest about it are worthy of some respect. I have ZERO respect for the rest. It's despicable.

They are obviously just as skilled at lying to themselves as they are to others.