Legally married, now having a "real" wedding? Stop here first! (AKA, the PPD FAQ thread)

NYCBruin

STBMrsEverhart said:

Perception is reality. It's all going to work out perfectly. 

Someone should really tell the emperor he isn't wearing any clothes.

crunchymamaof2

karimichele13 said:

I think there's a few things we can all agree on:

1. It's about the marriage, not the party. This applies to any wedding. This has been stated over and over again in various ways and no one has ever said otherwise. Before I made my bat Mitzvah my parents and I had to attend a seminar and read a book called "Keeping G-d on the Guest List" that basically talked about not getting carried away and losing sight of the meaning of the day. Sadly I still had a huge party with people I didn't know and was forced to go to a class to make sure I know how to lead the Electric Slide. I swore that my wedding would be nothing like that, and still very much mean that.

2. No one on an etiquette message board is ever going to condone lying or failing to tell the truth or whatever. It's just not going to happen, that's an easy one. I get that. That being said I am sure every family has it's own level of secrecy. Personally, my family is very gossipy and judgmental so we function on a need-to-know basis and consider most things none of anyone's business. Considering what normally goes down, this is issue would be pretty minor but that's just my family not to be confused with proper etiquette. I think if you're making this decision it really is a personal judgement call but don't expect people to tell you to hide the truth. That decision is on you.


On a side note- a JOP was telling me a story about a couple who married who didn't legally marry on their wedding day. They had a wedding in December but didn't do the legal stuff until January because their accountant advised them to wait for tax purposes. I'm not condoning or condemning this but just illustrating that all sorts of stuff goes on in secret.

If you want to get married and keep it from your friends and family, go for it. But when you invite those same people to your "wedding" you owe them the truth since you're involving them. And in reality? Marriage is public record. Maybe if you're so worried about keeping it secret it's either a) because you know lying/hiding/having a ppd is wrong and/or b) maybe you married for the wrong reasons

lyndausvi

I think from now on I'm going to do a country wide search of public records for any wedding invites I receive.   

gg&ld14

Just made it through 39 pages... I'm getting addicted to these boards!

I just want to say WOW. As far as I know this is an Etiquette Board... inviting people to an event under false pretenses (to a wedding when you're already MARRIED) is against etiquette. It is not a matter of opinion, point of view, religion or cultural differences.

If you want to disregard etiquette and have a PPD, cash bar or whatever, that's your choice, but you can't expect to come to THIS board and have everyone agree with you.

I'm from a country where religious ceremonies are not legally binding. You don't need to be legally married to be get married in your religion, or vice versa, but you can't have only ONE ceremony and have your marriage recognized by both Government and Church you REALLY NEED both if you are religious.

Is it common here for people to get a judge and do the paper work (civil wedding) and then have their "big wedding" (church) days, weeks or months later? Yes it is. I was going to do exactly that until I came across another thread on this board and someone brought this to my attention. 

It is RUDE and it is LYING because I would already be married. Just because it's common doesn't make it proper. So, I'm having my Church Ceremony with all my loved ones, a brief civil marriage immediately after (during cocktail hour), and the reception on the same day, NO GAPS.

All that "we live apart", "I lost my insurance" stuff? Been there, done that. We live a 10 hour drive apart and I lost my dad's insurance because of age. Still not a good reason for us to LIE. We used part of our wedding budget to buy a medical insurance policy, and after 2 years of long distance we are experts on hunting cheap flights or bus tickets down and we get to see each other at least once a month. We both have jobs, and I'm finishing my mayor this summer. It can be done.

It's all about choices and WE choose to follow etiquette, be honest and respect our friends and family. Trying to justify breaching etiquette is just that, trying. 

Obviously everyone has their different lives and circumstances, but it is about honesty and owning your decisions. If you decide not to follow etiquette rules, it's your right and your choice, but don't expect validation or agreement on a E-forum and don't be surprised if someone gets offended, just deal with it like an adult. 

karimichele

ashleyep said:

karimichele13 said:

I think there's a few things we can all agree on:

1. It's about the marriage, not the party. This applies to any wedding. This has been stated over and over again in various ways and no one has ever said otherwise. Before I made my bat Mitzvah my parents and I had to attend a seminar and read a book called "Keeping G-d on the Guest List" that basically talked about not getting carried away and losing sight of the meaning of the day. Sadly I still had a huge party with people I didn't know and was forced to go to a class to make sure I know how to lead the Electric Slide. I swore that my wedding would be nothing like that, and still very much mean that.

2. No one on an etiquette message board is ever going to condone lying or failing to tell the truth or whatever. It's just not going to happen, that's an easy one. I get that. That being said I am sure every family has it's own level of secrecy. Personally, my family is very gossipy and judgmental so we function on a need-to-know basis and consider most things none of anyone's business. Considering what normally goes down, this is issue would be pretty minor but that's just my family not to be confused with proper etiquette. I think if you're making this decision it really is a personal judgement call but don't expect people to tell you to hide the truth. That decision is on you.


On a side note- a JOP was telling me a story about a couple who married who didn't legally marry on their wedding day. They had a wedding in December but didn't do the legal stuff until January because their accountant advised them to wait for tax purposes. I'm not condoning or condemning this but just illustrating that all sorts of stuff goes on in secret.

That's the thing. None of these people, especially the ones traveling for their wedding, even consider doing the legal part *after* the ceremony. "Well I'm getting married in Mexico, so I need to get legal married before I go." No you don't. You can take the time to figure out how to get legal married in Mexico, or wait to sign the papers until after. But they all want to have their cake and eat it too. 

There's a big difference between putting the legal aspects off until after, and not thinking they count as "real" but taking advantage of them before hand.

This makes no sense to me. Everyone keeps saying the problem is about lying. If you're not getting married, isn't that still lying? I just don't get it. Is the issue now whether or not you're getting the legal benefits of being married?

I'm also confused by the idea that if you're having a big party at which you're wearing a white dress that means you don't care about your marriage. The two are not mutually exclusive. That's would be that same as saying that every bride on their site putting effort into their dream wedding doesn't care about their marriage. That's not a fair thing to say at all.

Finally, just because someone decides the right thing for them is different than what's right for you, that does not mean they're saying your wedding wasn't good enough. It simply means we're making different choices.

I was in the middle of writing more detail of my decision making process but I thought better of it. If anyone is in the same situation and interested, feel free to PM me.

kitsunegari89

lyndausvi

I'm all about the lying.  I want full disclosure. 

Friends had a JOP wedding in the states for immigration reasons and then their Catholic wedding in Europe months later (in a country where you have to have separate ceremonies)?   Not a problem.  Went to the Catholic wedding actually.    

Friends had a JOP wedding before a deployment and then had a celebration after he returned? Again, not a problem.   I was happy he returned home safely.

Friend having a JOP wedding for insurance benefits then another "wedding" later.   Not my cup of tea, but I would more than likely go.  What can I say I like a good party?  

Friends had a JOP wedding to get benefits then decide to have a DW in another country but not tell anyone about the JOP so everyone will emotionally think they are watching the "real" wedding.    Hell no.  I don't want to be friends with anyone who wants to manipulate my feelings.  That is not a friend.

grumbledore

Jells2dot0 said:

If someone finds out they need insurance, or their sig other is deploying, or some other need arises, it is possible to plan a more traditional wedding in a short time. It might not be ideal, meaning maybe Aunt Sue won't be able to attend, or maybe your top choice venue is booked, but think outside of the box! Check with your VIPs and plan from there. Given the circumstances, I'm sure your VIPs will gather on a Thursday evening for a nice ceremony in a backyard or local hall followed by a nice dinner at a local fancy restaurant. Perhaps you have to buy a dress off of the rack *gasp!* but you'll have a wedding dress. Maybe the cake is from Kroger *double gasp!* but you'll have cake. At the end of it, you have your closest loved ones present, you exchange vows, you'll be legally married at the time of the ceremony, and you got to wear a wedding gown! All without lying, offending, and breaching etiquette!

Shut up dummy, obvs it's not real if I didn't get THE WEDDING I ALWAYS DREAMED OF.  I'm special.  Stop telling me I'm not.

grumbledore

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************PSA*************

This thread is about whether or not PPDs are or are not a breach of ETIQUETTE, not whether or not you like/do not like/have an excuse for PPDs.  

*********END PSA********

perdonami

lyndausvi said:

Friends had a JOP wedding to get benefits then decide to have a DW in another country but not tell anyone about the JOP so everyone will emotionally think they are watching the "real" wedding.    Hell no.  I don't want to be friends with anyone who wants to manipulate my feelings.  That is not a friend.

That is exactly why it is wrong to have a PPD. Etiquette aside, what a hurtful thing to do. 

crunchymamaof2

karimichele13 said:

ashleyep said:

karimichele13 said:

I think there's a few things we can all agree on:

1. It's about the marriage, not the party. This applies to any wedding. This has been stated over and over again in various ways and no one has ever said otherwise. Before I made my bat Mitzvah my parents and I had to attend a seminar and read a book called "Keeping G-d on the Guest List" that basically talked about not getting carried away and losing sight of the meaning of the day. Sadly I still had a huge party with people I didn't know and was forced to go to a class to make sure I know how to lead the Electric Slide. I swore that my wedding would be nothing like that, and still very much mean that.

2. No one on an etiquette message board is ever going to condone lying or failing to tell the truth or whatever. It's just not going to happen, that's an easy one. I get that. That being said I am sure every family has it's own level of secrecy. Personally, my family is very gossipy and judgmental so we function on a need-to-know basis and consider most things none of anyone's business. Considering what normally goes down, this is issue would be pretty minor but that's just my family not to be confused with proper etiquette. I think if you're making this decision it really is a personal judgement call but don't expect people to tell you to hide the truth. That decision is on you.


On a side note- a JOP was telling me a story about a couple who married who didn't legally marry on their wedding day. They had a wedding in December but didn't do the legal stuff until January because their accountant advised them to wait for tax purposes. I'm not condoning or condemning this but just illustrating that all sorts of stuff goes on in secret.

That's the thing. None of these people, especially the ones traveling for their wedding, even consider doing the legal part *after* the ceremony. "Well I'm getting married in Mexico, so I need to get legal married before I go." No you don't. You can take the time to figure out how to get legal married in Mexico, or wait to sign the papers until after. But they all want to have their cake and eat it too. 

There's a big difference between putting the legal aspects off until after, and not thinking they count as "real" but taking advantage of them before hand.

This makes no sense to me. Everyone keeps saying the problem is about lying. If you're not getting married, isn't that still lying? I just don't get it. Is the issue now whether or not you're getting the legal benefits of being married?

I'm also confused by the idea that if you're having a big party at which you're wearing a white dress that means you don't care about your marriage. The two are not mutually exclusive. That's would be that same as saying that every bride on their site putting effort into their dream wedding doesn't care about their marriage. That's not a fair thing to say at all.

Finally, just because someone decides the right thing for them is different than what's right for you, that does not mean they're saying your wedding wasn't good enough. It simply means we're making different choices.

I was in the middle of writing more detail of my decision making process but I thought better of it. If anyone is in the same situation and interested, feel free to PM me.

I don't know what @ashleyp meant, but IMO a lie is a lie is a lie. Throwing a wedding the signing papers days later doesn't make sense to me, unless there's a reason the couple can't be legally wed at the time (like @queerfemme). I guess it's better than signing before because then you're still a bride but again, can't see the point in doing this. But regardless, just don't lie. Let everyone know you're married or will be married after the vow ceremony. Yes some can argue it's just about words but it's not hard. I'd be happy to attend your vow renewal or marriage celebration. But I don't want to think I'm witnessing a wedding just to later discover I was lied to. Nope,

dwhereicome

Ok so we disagree on whether or not people should not divulge the information that they are married-   I absolutely understand why people are against non-disclosure .

However, you cannot tell people how they feel. Its like buying a house:

Signing the legal marriage contacts is like signing the mortgage contract. Some feel they own the house after they sign the mortgage contract. Some feel they own it after they move it - which could take months- that its not "real" until they move in. Yes of course technically everyone owns it after the sing the contract and if something happened they would be responsible even if they didn't move it, but they don't FEEL like its their house. That's it. So I think some people don't divulge because they don't feel married (but, of course, they are).

Second any attempt to paint me as a bigot in regards to marriage equality is humorous. I've avoided addressing it until now because its simply lubricious but it keeps coming up.  If you knew my "real" name you would google me and see that I not only strongly support marriage equality but put my money where my mouth is- ie donate to media campaigns for marriage equality as well at time. This is not because my sister, cousin and friends are in same sex marriages/committed relationships but because it is the right thing to do. 

MobKaz

Molly12345 said:

Ok so we disagree on whether or not people should not divulge the information that they are married-   I absolutely understand why people are against non-disclosure .

However, you cannot tell people how they feel. Its like buying a house:

Signing the legal marriage contacts is like signing the mortgage contract. Some feel they own the house after they sign the mortgage contract. Some feel they own it after they move it - which could take months- that its not "real" until they move in. Yes of course technically everyone owns it after the sing the contract and if something happened they would be responsible even if they didn't move it, but they don't FEEL like its their house. That's it. So I think some people don't divulge because they don't feel married (but, of course, they are).

Second any attempt to paint me as a bigot in regards to marriage equality is humorous. I've avoided addressing it until now because its simply lubricious but it keeps coming up.  If you knew my "real" name you would google me and see that I not only strongly support marriage equality but put my money where my mouth is- ie donate to media campaigns for marriage equality as well at time. This is not because my sister, cousin and friends are in same sex marriages/committed relationships but because it is the right thing to do. 

In particular, in the case of those who lie to obtain benefits, they have SIGNED the contract, and they have "MOVED IN" (receiving benefits from signing the contract).  Excuses/denial/feelings have run out......all that is left is the LIE.  

LDay2014

Molly12345 said:

Ok so we disagree on whether or not people should not divulge the information that they are married-   I absolutely understand why people are against non-disclosure .

However, you cannot tell people how they feel. Its like buying a house:

Signing the legal marriage contacts is like signing the mortgage contract. Some feel they own the house after they sign the mortgage contract. Some feel they own it after they move it - which could take months- that its not "real" until they move in. Yes of course technically everyone owns it after the sing the contract and if something happened they would be responsible even if they didn't move it, but they don't FEEL like its their house. That's it. So I think some people don't divulge because they don't feel married (but, of course, they are).

Second any attempt to paint me as a bigot in regards to marriage equality is humorous. I've avoided addressing it until now because its simply lubricious but it keeps coming up.  If you knew my "real" name you would google me and see that I not only strongly support marriage equality but put my money where my mouth is- ie donate to media campaigns for marriage equality as well at time. This is not because my sister, cousin and friends are in same sex marriages/committed relationships but because it is the right thing to do.

STUCK IN BOX

If they're contractually obligated to pay the mortgage, they OWN the house.  That's like saying a landlord doesn't own the building because he doesn't live there.

He pays the mortgage, he is responsible for what happens to that property whether or not he physically resides at the location.

crunchymamaof2

People can feel anyway they want. That doesn't excuse their rudeness however. Maybe I personally don't feel the sky is blue. I'm allowed to feel that way. But that doesn't mean I'm right; the sky IS blue whether I like it or not. If I keep my feelings to myself, fine, it's all good. But if I go around spouting that the sky is neon green and saying that my "perception is reality" I'd look like an idiot.

Whether someone personally feels their marriage isn't real doesn't matter. If they chose to get married and partake in the benefits granted then they ARE married, whether they like it or not.

Viczaesar

pinkshorts27 said:

chibiyui said:

So, now that I am home and on my desktop and not mah phone:

Unless you are this...person, I am not threatening you:



If you're this guy, IT'S ON MOTHERFUCKER.

I was so confused when she referred to your sig as threatening. It took a while. I call bullshit on her not knowing what Zelda was. Your gif doesn't really show the knife and clearly aren't attacking, but running and falling off that damn bridge again. Which I have done many times. 

Why?  I had no idea that the gif was from Zelda.  I don't play video games and have no idea what Zelda is aside from having heard the name before and thus knowing that it's some kind of video game.  That aside, I didn't think there was any kind of knife or attack going on in the gif.  It actually looked more like a suicide run to me than accidentally falling off a bridge, but still, not an attack.

artbyallie

Viczaesar said:

pinkshorts27 said:

chibiyui said:

So, now that I am home and on my desktop and not mah phone:

Unless you are this...person, I am not threatening you:



If you're this guy, IT'S ON MOTHERFUCKER.

I was so confused when she referred to your sig as threatening. It took a while. I call bullshit on her not knowing what Zelda was. Your gif doesn't really show the knife and clearly aren't attacking, but running and falling off that damn bridge again. Which I have done many times. 

Why?  I had no idea that the gif was from Zelda.  I don't play video games and have no idea what Zelda is aside from having heard the name before and thus knowing that it's some kind of video game.  That aside, I didn't think there was any kind of knife or attack going on in the gif.  It actually looked more like a suicide run to me than accidentally falling off a bridge, but still, not an attack.

Funny thing, I did look at it again recently and saw the sword button and "Attack" button in the upper right hand corner, which is an indicator of the controls on the game. So I guess that's what she was referring to? Still, it's damn obvious it's a video game even if one somehow has never seen or heard of the iconic Ocarina of Time.

kitsunegari89

OMG YOU GUYS THIS THREAD I CAN'T HANDLE IT ANYMORE STOP

ashleyep

lyndausvi said:

I think from now on I'm going to do a country wide search of public records for any wedding invites I receive.   

I tried to do that once. Maybe they're public, but not really that easy to search for. I think you have to go in person to town hall or something a lot of time.

ashleyep

dwhereicome said:

Ok so we disagree on whether or not people should not divulge the information that they are married-   I absolutely understand why people are against non-disclosure .

However, you cannot tell people how they feel. Its like buying a house:

Signing the legal marriage contacts is like signing the mortgage contract. Some feel they own the house after they sign the mortgage contract. Some feel they own it after they move it - which could take months- that its not "real" until they move in. Yes of course technically everyone owns it after the sing the contract and if something happened they would be responsible even if they didn't move it, but they don't FEEL like its their house. That's it. So I think some people don't divulge because they don't feel married (but, of course, they are).

Second any attempt to paint me as a bigot in regards to marriage equality is humorous. I've avoided addressing it until now because its simply lubricious but it keeps coming up.  If you knew my "real" name you would google me and see that I not only strongly support marriage equality but put my money where my mouth is- ie donate to media campaigns for marriage equality as well at time. This is not because my sister, cousin and friends are in same sex marriages/committed relationships but because it is the right thing to do. 

This is us. We just closed a few weeks ago. We don't move in for a few weeks. I still consider it my house, even though we don't yet live there. That's dumb.

mrs4everhart

We've recognized a business arrangement via contract. People do it all the time for all sorts of reasons. All this "You can't do this. You can't do that. You just can't." Yes, yes, we can, and do, daily. I've said it plenty of times, if other people feel an emotional attachment to the legal or contractual part of marriage, so be it. We don't. And I'm truly not interested in the "But what about gay people? Don't be so flippant" argument. I assure each and every one of you that my attitude toward marriage, legal or otherwise, is not keeping gay people from being legally wed in all 50 states. If it were up to me they most certainly would be able to. And my personal attitude will STILL be the same when it finally happens. 

And all of this "in the moment" nonsense, at this point, I don't care if my guests are "in the moment" or if they're playing Angry Birds so long as the volume's turned down. In all reality, who has time for adding who's "in the moment" to their list of concerns on their wedding day? Or ANY day? As long as the Groom is, I think we're ok. 

As for Naked Emperors and LaLa Land, I gotta say, I've always had a real love for Sinatra's My Way. 

 

 

kitsunegari89

STBMrsEverhart said:

We've recognized a business arrangement via contract. People do it all the time for all sorts of reasons. All this "You can't do this. You can't do that. You just can't." Yes, yes, we can, and do, daily. I've said it plenty of times, if other people feel an emotional attachment to the legal or contractual part of marriage, so be it. We don't. And I'm truly not interested in the "But what about gay people? Don't be so flippant" argument. I assure each and every one of you that my attitude toward marriage, legal or otherwise, is not keeping gay people from being legally wed in all 50 states. If it were up to me they most certainly would be able to. And my personal attitude will STILL be the same when it finally happens. 

And all of this "in the moment" nonsense, at this point, I don't care if my guests are "in the moment" or if they're playing Angry Birds so long as the volume's turned down. In all reality, who has time for adding who's "in the moment" to their list of concerns on their wedding day? Or ANY day? As long as the Groom is, I think we're ok. 

As for Naked Emperors and LaLa Land, I gotta say, I've always had a real love for Sinatra's My Way. 

 

 

Settling in... this ought to be good.

NYCBruin

I'm curious, for those who say they aren't really married until they've had the ceremony (despite being legally married), what happens if you get pre-"wedding" jitters and don't want to go through with it?  Because I'm pretty sure whether you have the ceremony or not, you'll still be married.  I haven't researched it, but I doubt you can just return your marriage license to the court house and say "but we weren't really married, so just toss this thing in the bin."

kitsunegari89

PPD in a nutshell.

MobKaz

mrshutzler said:

STBMrsEverhart said:

We've recognized a business arrangement via contract. People do it all the time for all sorts of reasons. All this "You can't do this. You can't do that. You just can't." Yes, yes, we can, and do, daily. I've said it plenty of times, if other people feel an emotional attachment to the legal or contractual part of marriage, so be it. We don't. And I'm truly not interested in the "But what about gay people? Don't be so flippant" argument. I assure each and every one of you that my attitude toward marriage, legal or otherwise, is not keeping gay people from being legally wed in all 50 states. If it were up to me they most certainly would be able to. And my personal attitude will STILL be the same when it finally happens. 

And all of this "in the moment" nonsense, at this point, I don't care if my guests are "in the moment" or if they're playing Angry Birds so long as the volume's turned down. In all reality, who has time for adding who's "in the moment" to their list of concerns on their wedding day? Or ANY day? As long as the Groom is, I think we're ok. 

As for Naked Emperors and LaLa Land, I gotta say, I've always had a real love for Sinatra's My Way. 

 

 

Settling in... this ought to be good.

Nah.....most people know better than to engage with this blowhard.  It's old and stale.  

mrs4everhart

NYCBruin said:

I'm curious, for those who say they aren't really married until they've had the ceremony (despite being legally married), what happens if you get pre-"wedding" jitters and don't want to go through with it?  Because I'm pretty sure whether you have the ceremony or not, you'll still be married.  I haven't researched it, but I doubt you can just return your marriage license to the court house and say "but we weren't really married, so just toss this thing in the bin."

More paperwork is what would happen, with additional fees to the state. Possibly some animosity, depending on the couple. But the upside is you wouldn't have to discuss with anyone because no one would know!

LDay2014

STBMrsEverhart said:

NYCBruin said:

I'm curious, for those who say they aren't really married until they've had the ceremony (despite being legally married), what happens if you get pre-"wedding" jitters and don't want to go through with it?  Because I'm pretty sure whether you have the ceremony or not, you'll still be married.  I haven't researched it, but I doubt you can just return your marriage license to the court house and say "but we weren't really married, so just toss this thing in the bin."

More paperwork is what would happen, with additional fees to the state. Possibly some animosity, depending on the couple. But the upside is you wouldn't have to discuss with anyone because no one would know!

my god - the things you say make you sound like an empty, shallow pit

artbyallie

mrshutzler said:

PPD in a nutshell.

Hey now, don't be dissing Charlotte. She's an amazing friend who's willing to give up her PPD in a heartbeat for Tiana's sake.

kitsunegari89

artbyallie said:

mrshutzler said:

PPD in a nutshell.

Hey now, don't be dissing Charlotte. She's an amazing friend who's willing to give up her PPD in a heartbeat for Tiana's sake.

From New Orleans, so I kindof hate that movie. Okay, she's selfless for a minute, but she's also bratty and superficial for most of the movie. Plus, there are plenty of rich guys for her to marry in New Orleans in that decade. She could have hooked up with one of the Ochsners or something. Let's not feel too sorry for her :P  and I hate that fake southern accent everyone has.... uuuugh nobody talks like that. Sidenote, I just saw John Goodman while out running, and he has lost weight.

kitsunegari89

STBMrsEverhart said:

NYCBruin said:

I'm curious, for those who say they aren't really married until they've had the ceremony (despite being legally married), what happens if you get pre-"wedding" jitters and don't want to go through with it?  Because I'm pretty sure whether you have the ceremony or not, you'll still be married.  I haven't researched it, but I doubt you can just return your marriage license to the court house and say "but we weren't really married, so just toss this thing in the bin."

More paperwork is what would happen, with additional fees to the state. Possibly some animosity, depending on the couple. But the upside is you wouldn't have to discuss with anyone because no one would know!

...