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Vent. Not about work/relationships/or wedding.

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Re: Vent. Not about work/relationships/or wedding.

  • edited March 2015
    Yeah, we looked at her like a pug dog that cocks his head.  Is she serious? Does she not know science?  I had a hard time believing someone is that stupid.  I said, "Honey, you know your inner voice?  Sometimes, she shouldn't be let out to play." I, rarely, call people honey.  I was pissed.  My sister spent the whole day in tears.
  • Yeah, we looked at her like a pug dog that cocks his head.  Is she serious? Does she not know science?  I had a hard time believing someone is that stupid.  I said, "Honey, you know your inner voice?  Sometimes, she shouldn't be let out to play." I, rarely, call people honey.  I was pissed.  My sister spent the whole day in tears.

    Oh no!!! :( Poor sister.

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  • MagicInk said:

    Wifey was really disappointed to learn that sitcoms and Star magazine had been lying to her for years and she would not have a flat tummy the second after she gave birth.

    So true! When my first friend had a baby I learned a lot in general. She is very tiny (sz 2) and when I went to visit her at the house about a week after baby was born she had on a tight shirt and she looked 6 mo pregnant. I had never realized or seen that before as people tend to hide it and media photoshops it out!

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    Anniversary
  • Oh no!!! :( Poor sister.
    I would have had that margarita and given nonefucks if people thought I was preggers at a bar. After a day like that, you deserve it.
  • MagicInk said:

    Damn...wait until they hear Follow Your Arrow.

    The lyrics are "Make lots of noise, kiss lots of boys, or kiss lots of girls if that's what you're into". There are even a few out country singers now (not a lot and not big names but they're there). And believe me, country music has always had a gay following. I went to see Wynona Judd when she was in town. Bunch of lesbians and gay boys. We love our country divas. 
    I love this song! Yeah, I don't hear my country stations ever playing Kacey Musgraves- idk if she's just not that popular around here?
     




  • I love this song! Yeah, I don't hear my country stations ever playing Kacey Musgraves- idk if she's just not that popular around here?
    I only hear her occasionally. I think she's just not a huge name yet. But she's written song for Miranda Lambert. Mama's Broken Heart, Kacey wrote that one. So hopefully she gets more popular.
  • edited March 2015
    FiancB said:

    I'm morally opposed to Republicans. Does this mean that when I'm a nurse I can refuse to treat Republicans? 


    Nah. Jails need nurses too and then we treat murderers and rapists. BUT NO NOT TEH GAYS!
    This so much.  I am totally against Catholic hospitals.  They have no business being in the medical field if their morals will get in the way of doing their job.  And the fact that they will treat murderers and rapists, but never a woman who had an abortion, or even has symptoms that could mean she had an abortion, is just hypocritical. I wish they knew that the Hippocratic oath does not mean license to be a hypocrite. I don't know how they would treat a gay couple, I am pretty sure they would not acknowledge a gay spouse if their partner needed someone to make a medical decision.
  • So, on the legalizing discrimination thing, that's gross. They tried to do it in Georgia too but the bill didn't pass. 

    On the serving or not serving booze to pregnant people I don't think that servers should discriminate against women who look pregnant. I get that it seems alarming to see a pregnant looking woman having some margs, but 1. she may not really be pregnant and 2. while I don't endorse women drinking while pregnant the amount of alcohol a woman needs to drink while pregnant to cause FAS is a lot. Like, a couple cases of beer a day a lot. I know women who, during their pregnancy, would get together and have a glass of wine together at home because there was no way they could do so without getting death glares in public. Their kids came out totally fine. 
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  • This so much.  I am totally against Catholic hospitals.  They have no business being in the medical field if their morals will get in the way of doing their job.  And the fact that they will treat murderers and rapists, but never a woman who had an abortion, or even has symptoms that could mean she had an abortion, is just hypocritical. I wish they knew that the Hippocratic oath does not mean license to be a hypocrite. I don't know how they would treat a gay couple, I am pretty sure they would not acknowledge a gay spouse if their partner needed someone to make a medical decision.
    So, on the topic of Catholic hospitals, half of ours in the local city are Catholic, half are public.  The Catholic ones are the only ones that do abortive procedures, but only till 11 weeks (the public hospitals offer different services (surgeries, etc.), so depending on what you need done dictated which hospital you go to).  

    My SIL miscarried earlier this month at 14 weeks.  No heartbeat on the ultrasound.  She refused to go to a different hospital to be induced to deliver the baby cos they did a late termination in Sept. at 21 weeks (baby had a ton of health problems, more than could likely be fixed if he survived delivery), she didn't want to wait to delivery naturally, whenever that would happen, so she went for a D&C.  Since she was past 11 weeks, the Catholic system won't do the procedure as it's tied in with abortions.  The public hospitals don't offer D&C.  She had to go to the private abortion clinic in the city to have the procedure done.  She didn't understand why policy still considered her an "abortion" even though the baby was already dead.  She just wanted the medical procedure to be completed.  It's such a bullshit policy

  • So, on the legalizing discrimination thing, that's gross. They tried to do it in Georgia too but the bill didn't pass. 


    On the serving or not serving booze to pregnant people I don't think that servers should discriminate against women who look pregnant. I get that it seems alarming to see a pregnant looking woman having some margs, but 1. she may not really be pregnant and 2. while I don't endorse women drinking while pregnant the amount of alcohol a woman needs to drink while pregnant to cause FAS is a lot. Like, a couple cases of beer a day a lot. I know women who, during their pregnancy, would get together and have a glass of wine together at home because there was no way they could do so without getting death glares in public. Their kids came out totally fine. 
    This is not true. There is not enough evidence to define any threshold for low level alcohol consumption during pregnancy, and insufficient evidence to determine if low level alcohol consumption during pregnancy causes fetal harm. The amount of alcohol consumed is directly related to cognitive defects in infants when the mothers consumed more than 0.04 ounces of absolute alcohol per day. A standard alcoholic beverage (1 shot, 12 oz beer, 5 oz wine) contains 0.6 ounces absolute alcohol.

    Source - Public Health Agency of Canada and The Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada

    Anniversary
  • So, on the topic of Catholic hospitals, half of ours in the local city are Catholic, half are public.  The Catholic ones are the only ones that do abortive procedures, but only till 11 weeks (the public hospitals offer different services (surgeries, etc.), so depending on what you need done dictated which hospital you go to).  

    My SIL miscarried earlier this month at 14 weeks.  No heartbeat on the ultrasound.  She refused to go to a different hospital to be induced to deliver the baby cos they did a late termination in Sept. at 21 weeks (baby had a ton of health problems, more than could likely be fixed if he survived delivery), she didn't want to wait to delivery naturally, whenever that would happen, so she went for a D&C.  Since she was past 11 weeks, the Catholic system won't do the procedure as it's tied in with abortions.  The public hospitals don't offer D&C.  She had to go to the private abortion clinic in the city to have the procedure done.  She didn't understand why policy still considered her an "abortion" even though the baby was already dead.  She just wanted the medical procedure to be completed.  It's such a bullshit policy
    That's awful! My sister is super pro life (like, the protest outside of PP variety) and even she could recognize she needed a D&C when she miscarried. Dafuq?

    I was under the impression that Catholic hospitals operated pretty secularly and that often the quality of care is better since they aren't so motivated by profits, but I will definitely keep this in mind when choosing a place to work now. 
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  • edited March 2015
    sorry, fat thumbs on mobile. I was just catching up on the thread and accidentally posted. Carry on.
  • .....

    Do you actually have something to say or are you just thirsty for attention?
  • lyndausvilyndausvi mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited March 2015

    So, on the topic of Catholic hospitals, half of ours in the local city are Catholic, half are public.  The Catholic ones are the only ones that do abortive procedures, but only till 11 weeks (the public hospitals offer different services (surgeries, etc.), so depending on what you need done dictated which hospital you go to).  

    My SIL miscarried earlier this month at 14 weeks.  No heartbeat on the ultrasound.  She refused to go to a different hospital to be induced to deliver the baby cos they did a late termination in Sept. at 21 weeks (baby had a ton of health problems, more than could likely be fixed if he survived delivery), she didn't want to wait to delivery naturally, whenever that would happen, so she went for a D&C.  Since she was past 11 weeks, the Catholic system won't do the procedure as it's tied in with abortions.  The public hospitals don't offer D&C.  She had to go to the private abortion clinic in the city to have the procedure done.  She didn't understand why policy still considered her an "abortion" even though the baby was already dead.  She just wanted the medical procedure to be completed.  It's such a bullshit policy
    Well isn't the problem also the public hospitals do not do D&C's at all too?   I guess what I'm saying its  if a public hospital is allowed not to do them at all, a Catholic one should be allowed to decide their own policy of how far along they will do the procedure, no?

    Don't get me wrong, i feel bad for your sister.    I'm not sure it's fair to call out the Catholic hospital when the public ones do not do the procedure at all.



    ETA - I should say I do not have a problem with a private hospital choosing not to do certain procedures.  Not all hospitals do all the medical procedure out there.   So I'm okay with the business decides to not do certain procedures, even if it's for moral reasons.  

    I do have a problem with a hospital denying service to an individual for discriminating reasons on procedure they do provide.  I.E  If your hospital does heart transplants you better not fucking denying doing one for a gay person.     If you don't want to perform heart surgery on a gay person then don't do heart surgeries at all.  Once you decide you are doing "x" procedure that is for everyone who walks in that door (assuming there are no other medical reason not to).






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • WinstonsGirlWinstonsGirl member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited March 2015
    lyndausvi said:

    Well isn't the problem also the public hospitals do not do D&C's at all too?   I guess what I'm saying its  if a public hospital is allowed not to do them at all, a Catholic one should be allowed to decide their own policy of how far along they will do the procedure, no?

    Don't get me wrong, i feel bad for your sister.    I'm not sure it's fair to call out the Catholic hospital when the public ones do not do the procedure at all.



    ETA - I should say I do not have a problem with a private hospital choosing not to do certain procedures.  Not all hospitals do all the medical procedure out there.   So I'm okay with the business decides to not do certain procedures, even if it's for moral reasons.  

    I do have a problem with a hospital denying service to an individual for discriminating reasons on procedure they do provide.  I.E  If your hospital does heart transplants you better not fucking denying doing one for a gay person.     If you don't want to perform heart surgery on a gay person then don't do heart surgeries at all.  Once you decide you are doing "x" procedure that is for everyone who walks in that door (assuming there are no other medical reason not to).
    Eh, I'm not sure how it works in the US, with HMO's and insurance, but I'm up in Canada, so everything is technically public, even if it's the Catholic system.  It's the same in schools - we have both Public and Catholic school boards, both of which accept any kids and are paid for by the government.  You don't have to be Catholic to go to a Catholic board school and many students there aren't Catholic.  You just have to take the religion option that isn't given in the Public schools.  

    So while both hospital boards are technically public, one is run with a Catholic belief system behind it.  The procedures offered at each are to divvy up finding from the government so that the same procedures aren't being offered are multiple hospitals when they aren't needed at every hospital, if that makes sense.  

    While I can understand a Catholic hospital saying they won't perform abortions after a set date of pregnancy, not offering the procedure to people in situations like SIL is ridiculous in my opinion.  She didn't want an abortion.  She wanted the same procedure to remove a baby that died naturally (this sounds/feel weird typing it out like that, but not sure how else to phrase it) and was denied that medical procedure.   

    ETA - the public/Catholic things comes from way back when the British beat the French to take over Canada (1700's).  The English let the French keep their language/culture/religion etc. and now we have both public and Catholic systems that are both publicly funded and open to everyone.  Some "public" systems are also called "Protestant" systems in some areas.     

  • Eh, I'm not sure how it works in the US, with HMO's and insurance, but I'm up in Canada, so everything is technically public, even if it's the Catholic system.  It's the same in schools - we have both Public and Catholic school boards, both of which accept any kids and are paid for by the government.  You don't have to be Catholic to go to a Catholic board school and many students there aren't Catholic.  You just have to take the religion option that isn't given in the Public schools.  

    So while both hospital boards are technically public, one is run with a Catholic belief system behind it.  The procedures offered at each are to divvy up finding from the government so that the same procedures aren't being offered are multiple hospitals when they aren't needed at every hospital, if that makes sense.  

    While I can understand a Catholic hospital saying they won't perform abortions after a set date of pregnancy, not offering the procedure to people in situations like SIL is ridiculous in my opinion.  She didn't want an abortion.  She wanted the same procedure to remove a baby that died naturally (this sounds/feel weird typing it out like that, but not sure how else to phrase it) and was denied that medical procedure.   

    ETA - the public/Catholic things comes from way back when the British beat the French to take over Canada (1700's).  The English let the French keep their language/culture/religion etc. and now we have both public and Catholic systems that are both publicly funded and open to everyone.  Some "public" systems are also called "Protestant" systems in some areas.     
    Private hospitals are private. Public are public.


    I do not agree with the Catholic's stance on the subject of not doing D&Cs after 11 weeks. I personally believe that a fetus is not a human being.  I believe that poster's SIL's baby was already dead.  So it would not have been an abortion.  I also would have chosen the same course of action she did.

    However at the same time I support a private hospital picking what procedures they are will to perform at their hospital.     

    Some Catholic hospitals have been around for hundred+ years.  The one in my home town has been around for over 90.   BC pills were not even around when the hospital started.  Abortions were not legal.    I fee like as a private business they have the right to decide which new procedures they are willing to perform or not.     A lots of times they do so much good for community that just saying "they shouldn't be in business" isn't practical.    Closing up a 90 year old hospital because they choose not to do D&C at 21 weeks is not good for the community overall. 

     There are no hospitals that have 1 stop shopping.    Every hospital picks and choose which procedures they do.   Almost all hospitals specialize in a few things and refer you to another place for others.   

    It's not surprising at all with the Church's stance on the subject that they would not perform a D&C after 11 weeks.    Sucks to have to find another place, but if you needed a heart transplant you might have another hospital for that too.







    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • But our hospitals aren't private, even if they are run by the Catholic board.  Both systems are publicly funded and open to everyone.  They just offer different services to avoid excessive overlap.  We have no private hospitals in Alberta that I know of.    

  • But our hospitals aren't private, even if they are run by the Catholic board.  Both systems are publicly funded and open to everyone.  They just offer different services to avoid excessive overlap.  We have no private hospitals in Alberta that I know of.    

    and that is one of many difference between healthcare in the states and in Canada.  As long as healthcare is private in the US we will always have these types of issues.

    I am curious if the Catholic hospitals up there do D&C after 11 weeks or to avoid "overlap" the non-Catholic ones just take care of those procedures?    "Overlap" being cover for the Catholic run hospitals do not want to do them so they just have the non-Catholics ones do them.  Just speculating. 






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • lyndausvi said:

    and that is one of many difference between healthcare in the states and in Canada.  As long as healthcare is private in the US we will always have these types of issues.

    I am curious if the Catholic hospitals up there do D&C after 11 weeks or to avoid "overlap" the non-Catholic ones just take care of those procedures?    "Overlap" being cover for the Catholic run hospitals do not want to do them so they just have the non-Catholics ones do them.  Just speculating. 
    Our Catholic hospitals don't to the D&C after 11 weeks, hence why SIL was at the abortion clinic based on their Catholic beliefs.  The non-Catholic hospitals don't offer the option.  They do more surgical stuff, as an example.  Most of the pregnancy related stuff is handled by the Catholic hospitals now.  I think it's just what has been built at different hospitals, though I'm not actually sure.  As another example, one non-Catholic hospital has a specialty centre for heart research and treatments, so if you need heart surgery, you go there as no other hospitals really do the surgery at other locations.   

  • Our Catholic hospitals don't to the D&C after 11 weeks, hence why SIL was at the abortion clinic based on their Catholic beliefs.  The non-Catholic hospitals don't offer the option.  They do more surgical stuff, as an example.  Most of the pregnancy related stuff is handled by the Catholic hospitals now.  I think it's just what has been built at different hospitals, though I'm not actually sure.  As another example, one non-Catholic hospital has a specialty centre for heart research and treatments, so if you need heart surgery, you go there as no other hospitals really do the surgery at other locations.   
    Seems to me the powers-of-be are the ones saying if you want a D&Cs after 11 weeks you need to go to abortion clinics.  Just like if you want heart surgery you to "Y" hospital.     

    I get being annoyed, but I still do not think blaming the Catholic church should take all the blame.  Those who decide who is going to do what could easily fix the issue by having public hospitals to the procedure.  






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
  • monkeysip said:

    I fully support a Catholic hospital's (or other hospital's) right to choose not to do procedures like abortions, but I agree with Lynda that it's not ok for any hospital to refuse services to particular PERSON... like, we don't treat gays or we won't treat a woman who comes in AFTER having had an abortion and needs help for whatever reason.  I didn't know there were any hospitals that do that.  Also, a D&C of a miscarriage is not any way shape or form an abortion, and I'm so sorry your sister was turned away for that.  That's ridiculous.  Miscarriages are hard enough without a hospital refusing to help you with it.  


    ETA:  For reference, it's not against Catholic morality to have a D&C when your unborn child has died.  So I don't get why hospitals would refuse that.  
    Yes it is.

    abortion

     /abor·tion/ (ah-bor´shun)
    1. expulsion from the uterus of the products of conception before the fetus is viable.
    2. premature stoppage of a natural or a pathological process.


    A miscarriage is technically an abortion. A D&C is an abortion. Lay people usually only refer to abortion as a procedure that you choose to do (induced abortion), but it means any expulsion of the "conception products" before the fetus is viable.

    I remember reading an article a few years ago about a woman who had a miscarriage and was distraught that it said abortion in her medical records. Abortion is a word that has too many emotions attached to it based on what most people associate the word with. 
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  • huskypuppy14

    I'm well aware of the medical definition of abortion.  I was obviously saying that the morality of abortion vs. a D&C for a miscarriage are not at all the same, so therefore, the hospital should not have had a moral issue with doing a D&C for the woman with a miscarriage.

    Besides, with most abortion procedures, action is taken to kill the child first before expelling it from the womb.  Obviously, after a miscarriage, there is no such action as the child is already dead.  So even medically there IS a difference.  

    SaveSave
  • I've only heard abortion meaning miscarriage when referring to animals. As in "Jil the cow aborted her calf". Jill the cow didn't go to PP because she just isn't ready to be a mom. 

    Like technically it can be that way with people but the connotation between the two are very different. 
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  • I honestly wasn't aware that Catholic hospitals caused such problems in this many areas. There are two huge Catholic hospitals in my area and they do provide BC and will do a D&C no matter when the woman miscarried. I guess it is different from hospital to hospital.
  • edited June 2015
  • edited June 2015
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