I mean, letting a kid go home with the homos is participating in a sin right?
Actually, it's not.
So...this participating in a sin rule seems pretty waffley.
It's participating in a sin for a court clerk to issue a marriage license to a gay couple in a state with legalized gay marriage. Its participating in a sin to sell flowers to a gay couple getting married.
It is not participating in a sin to let a gay couple raise a child though. So we can't get married or fuck, but we can raise kids together. Fucking hell man. I mean if you want to be a bigot, fine be a bigot, but make the rules consistent.
I've never been able to understand why Catholic hospitals are a thing.
Because we are called to help the sick and provide aid to those who need it.
How can you even say that in a conversation about actual cases of specific Catholic people turning away specific sick people who needed aid, for no other reason than those people's lifestyles and behaviors may or may not have lived up to their own personal standards? We're not talking hypotheticals here. This is actually happening.
I've never been able to understand why Catholic hospitals are a thing.
Because we are called to help the sick and provide aid to those who need it.
Except for the gays, and immoral women who have had abortions. You aren't "called" to help them, right?
I must have missed that part in the bible where Jesus helps only the people who followed all his teachings exactly.
"Love each other (except for those with matching genitals, those who want control over their own bodies, and those who choose not to push a watermelon out of their taco)"
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
You're acting like being hateful towards gay people, people who have abortions, etc isn't bigotry. IT IS. This is not just some shit us Internet meanies are making up.
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
You're acting like being hateful towards gay people, people who have abortions, etc isn't bigotry. IT IS. This is not just some shit us Internet meanies are making up.
So it's the latter. Got it.
ETA. Yes, there are assholes who do hateful things in the name of Catholicism. But that is not what the Church teaches.
In keeping with this conviction, the Church teaches that persons with a homosexual inclination “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”2 We recognize that these persons have been, and often continue to be, objects of scorn, hatred, and even violence in some sectors of our society. Sometimes this hatred is manifested clearly; other times, it is masked and gives rise to more disguised forms of hatred. “It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
Nobody's bashing ALL CATHOLICS, just like you can't sit there and say that ALL CATHOLICS are called to help people. That has been clarified about a million BILLION TIMES. We are talking about specific people following a specific doctrine that was written by other specific people and enforced by other specific people. There are yet others misinterpreting that doctrine and doing unspeakable things in the name of Catholicism. Those people doing and believing those things are the bigots. I'm sure there are some cool Catholics out there who do disagree with the bigoted teachings. They're fine by me.
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
I understand that catholics value man made doctrine over biblical teachings (e.g. what the bishops say about catholic hospotals). Jesus would be appalled by some of the things I have read here.
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
You're acting like being hateful towards gay people, people who have abortions, etc isn't bigotry. IT IS. This is not just some shit us Internet meanies are making up.
So it's the latter. Got it.
Please show me where you are being "bashed".
If you can't handle disagreement with out crying "bashing" or "attack", why are you here, on a forum where you know there is a general disagreement with this set of beliefs?
I've never been able to understand why Catholic hospitals are a thing.
The Catholic church is the single largest non-government health care services provider in the world. Their hospitals date back thousands of years. They just didn't pop up over the last few decades in order to block American woman the right to BC. They have been around for THOUSANDS of years.
Many priests and monks were doctors. The Catholic church was among the first to have medical schools. Early priests were involved in many early scientific discoveries that are still used today.
What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests. Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated.
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
You're acting like being hateful towards gay people, people who have abortions, etc isn't bigotry. IT IS. This is not just some shit us Internet meanies are making up.
So it's the latter. Got it.
Please show me where you are being "bashed".
If you can't handle disagreement with out crying "bashing" or "attack", why are you here, on a forum where you know there is a general disagreement with this set of beliefs?
Funny how the other catholic knotties don't have this problem.
They still have guidelines who they wouldn't help. They would not terminate a partial miscarriage if there is still a fetal heartbeat. This can lead to infection and kill the mother. I think if you have beliefs about who you would and wouldn't treat, you have NO BUSINESS being in the medical field. Maybe someone with these guidelines could read books to the elderly, work in a soup kitchen, work at an animal shelter.
These "doctors" should not be working in a hospital which is an emergent care facility. If a nurse, who was a Jehovah's witness, refuse to do assist doing a blood transfusion, she has no right working in a hospital. And that is just one person, in this example. These hospitals are making decisions on a grand scale as to who they would and wouldn't treat. In an emergent situation, they are putting lives at risk. Whereas, you could always get another nurse, at that hospital to do a blood transfusion, it might kill the patient to be transported across town to another hospital. In my opinion, if you have any belief that wouldn't put the patient first, you should not be in the medical field.
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
You're acting like being hateful towards gay people, people who have abortions, etc isn't bigotry. IT IS. This is not just some shit us Internet meanies are making up.
So it's the latter. Got it.
Please show me where you are being "bashed".
If you can't handle disagreement with out crying "bashing" or "attack", why are you here, on a forum where you know there is a general disagreement with this set of beliefs?
Funny how the other catholic knotties don't have this problem.
It's weird. It is almost like they are adults who can handle disagreement without being whiney babies about it.
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
You're acting like being hateful towards gay people, people who have abortions, etc isn't bigotry. IT IS. This is not just some shit us Internet meanies are making up.
So it's the latter. Got it.
Please show me where you are being "bashed".
If you can't handle disagreement with out crying "bashing" or "attack", why are you here, on a forum where you know there is a general disagreement with this set of beliefs?
Cuz she's gonna change us, Ashley. She's gonna lead us to the light.
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
You're acting like being hateful towards gay people, people who have abortions, etc isn't bigotry. IT IS. This is not just some shit us Internet meanies are making up.
So it's the latter. Got it.
Please show me where you are being "bashed".
If you can't handle disagreement with out crying "bashing" or "attack", why are you here, on a forum where you know there is a general disagreement with this set of beliefs?
Cuz she's gonna change us, Ashley. She's gonna lead us to the light.
Mormons wouldn't let blacks in their churches until 1978 because of religion. They weren't being religious. They were being racist. Same thing now. Just replace black with gay.
Is there a reason you continue to interject yourself in these types of conversations, @holyguacamole79?
Of course everyone is allowed to choose what topics they choose to post on, but it really has become a broken record. It seems like to me you're just looking for someone to argue with.
I wouldn't fret, Ink; your kid was already conceived in a way that removes the dignity of humanity. Might as well just let that sin odometer roll over.
But really, I'm more concerned how they would treat you, lesbian who has no genetic attachment to the child.
Is there a reason you continue to interject yourself in these type of conversations, holyguacamole79?
Of course everyone is allowed to choose what topics they choose to post on, but it really has become a broken record. It seems like to me you're just looking for someone to argue with.
A need for persecution, maybe to make one feel closer to the Laaaawd, is my guess.
After reading the whole thread, I wanted to post about how I am Catholic (have had a bit of a falling out) but that I love everyone equally. It doesn't matter the race, sexual orientation, etc....but then I thought, who am I kidding?
Do y'all have any interest in understanding us Catholics? Or do you just want to bash and call us bigots?
Here's where I land on this: I love learning about religions. I find them generally fascinating, and have since I was a kid. But what started this thread was not "Catholics, what's THEIR deal, amirite?" but rather "Here is a shitty law that was passed in the name of religion." I believe it was you who jumped in to bring the Catholic perspective on that law, and to (once again) reiterate how it's "just as bad for a Catholic to facilitate another's sin as it is to perform a sin."
(This does seem to be your particular "favorite" part of the dogma, which is fine, but I find it a little suspect that you speak on the topic of Catholicism as if you are a complete authority, without any biases. I don't expect you to be a complete authority, nor to I expect you to be without bias, because you are a human. But I do think you run into a lot of the pushback here because you present yourself as an authority. Which I also find odd, considering the Catholic Church does not care to put women in positions of clerical power, but that is another can of worms I'm not interested in delving into).
Point being, you opened the door to even making this about Catholicism. You insist that Catholicism itself isn't the problem; but you decline to condemn the actions of self-described Catholics, who, like yourself*, imagine themselves to be doing unspeakably horrible things (violating the hippocratic oath, sending bleeding women home to suffer and possibly die, refusing to follow best medical practices because ANY birth control is worse than a dead mother) all "in good faith." They believe they're doing what God wants, and I don't hear you, the Pope, or anyone else who claims to be authoritative on the subject, condemning that shit.
Doesn't this strike you as a problem, not only with "individual assholes" (which of course they ARE) but also with the organization itself? Catholic authorities' silence on these matters constitutes their tacit approval. It just does. So I can't sit here and hear "well it's not the Church, it's individuals!" without seeing the gaping hole in the logic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Church has had very few qualms about quashing "bad dogma" in the past (hint: they used to call it heresy, and "quashed" it with the Inquisition.) We know the Church is not afraid to state outright what it supports and doesn't support. So when it is silent in the face of its own affiliated hospitals behaving abhorrently, or in the face of lawmakers passing shitty, shitty laws partially in its name, a reasonable person can only assume that it is, in fact, supportive of those things. Which makes it a Church problem, not just an Individuals problem.
This is not to say your religion is even close to being the worst one out there in terms of shitty behavior. But it isn't perfect, and in fact it is deeply imperfect even at enforcing some of the "official" language of compassion and love that you are so fond of linking to. It's too pat to say "the Church doesn't agree with certain Catholic organizations' actions because of X piece of dogma" if the Church doesn't actually come out and say as much, out loud, to everyone. Their (in)actions speak infinitely louder than their words in these cases.
As for what a person can do in the face of this? Well, they can say "I can't in good conscience be a member of this Church." They can say, "Yikes, I love my religion but this is a problem, and I will work to be vocal and demand that the powers that be step up and make a clear public stance about this." Or they can say, "But you guyyyyysss, you're not being fair because the Church totally isn't even like that!" Denying problems and insisting that those who bring them up are "bashing" Catholics is just burying your head in the sand. Either you can see the disconnect and the hypocrisy of writing one thing in official documents but declining to enforce it publicly, and that bothers you, or you don't care that it's hypocritical. But you seem to be toeing the line of "people can be wrong" and "the Church is always right" with pretty dismal results, as far as I can tell.
*ETA: they are like you in that you both act in good faith. I do not think you do unspeakably horrible things to people.
After reading the whole thread, I wanted to post about how I am Catholic (have had a bit of a falling out) but that I love everyone equally. It doesn't matter the race, sexual orientation, etc....but then I thought, who am I kidding?
You have the good sense that god gave you, apparently.
Re: Vent. Not about work/relationships/or wedding.
ETA: General you, by the way. Don't get all sanctimonious on me, as per usual.
It is not participating in a sin to let a gay couple raise a child though. So we can't get married or fuck, but we can raise kids together. Fucking hell man. I mean if you want to be a bigot, fine be a bigot, but make the rules consistent.
So it's the latter. Got it.
If you can't handle disagreement with out crying "bashing" or "attack", why are you here, on a forum where you know there is a general disagreement with this set of beliefs?
I'm the fuck out.
After reading the whole thread, I wanted to post about how I am Catholic (have had a bit of a falling out) but that I love everyone equally. It doesn't matter the race, sexual orientation, etc....but then I thought, who am I kidding?
*ETA: they are like you in that you both act in good faith. I do not think you do unspeakably horrible things to people.
I'm the fuck out.