The dreaded "gap"

cupcait927

@NosterAmorInvictus or how about you get over yourself and stop thinking that your wedding is the be-all end-all?

ETA - including all the words is hard

bouncertony

I've been to a lot of weddings, all at different times of the day, I never thought twice about having a wedding reception end earlier in the day. Actually I went to one with an 8am ceramony and a breakfast reception at 8:30am, we were done by 11. It was actually pretty cool, even if I whined about getting up early. 

I've only gone to one with a gap. Big church wedding, reception site was less then 10 minutes away and it was an hour and half gap. At least that's what I told, I left after standing around for 30 minutes bored out of my mind and starving. So I figured I'd go grab something to eat and go home for a bit then go back later. Well, once I got home and ate I kind of forgot I was going to go back and fell asleep. I had brought their gift (of cash, I like giving cash) with me to the wedding and stuck it in my suit pocket, and well totally forgot about it until several days later when I was taking my suit to the cleaners and saw an envelope sticking out. Honestly, I didn't feel too bad about it.

If you want a daytime wedding, you might not be able to have a night time reception. That's really not a big deal. But just having your guests stand around with their thumbs up their asses, that is.

Jen4948

NosterAmorInvictus said:

Holy shit. You people are insane. Truly overly dramatic. I have news for you. The only "Queen of England", "snowflake", "bitches" commenting are the ones that are sooooooo put out by being asked to wait. I wouldn't want your damn wedding gift or your shitty attitude at my wedding anyway. Holy hell. I am utterly amazed that so many of you think we are the ones being rude when you so clearly do not understand how to be understanding, compassionate, or happy in general it seems. My time is precious, sure, but so is the union of two happy people in love. Grow up and get over yourselves.

Is that the sound of a pot calling the kettle black?

Sorry, your guests' time is important too.  Just because you're in love, you are not the Queen for the day and you are not entitled to keep them waiting forever for you because you think you are more important.  Not even on your wedding day.

PrettyGirlLost

NosterAmorInvictus said:

Holy shit. You people are insane. Truly overly dramatic. I have news for you. The only "Queen of England", "snowflake", "bitches" commenting are the ones that are sooooooo put out by being asked to wait. I wouldn't want your damn wedding gift or your shitty attitude at my wedding anyway. Holy hell. I am utterly amazed that so many of you think we are the ones being rude when you so clearly do not understand how to be understanding, compassionate, or happy in general it seems. My time is precious, sure, but so is the union of two happy people in love. Grow up and get over yourselves.

Right, which we all witnessed during the ceremony.

Why is your evening reception so much more precious than my time that you would have me wait around doing nothing for several hours after your ceremony?

You do realize what the point of hosting a reception is too, right?  It's to thank your guests for celebrating the wedding ceremony with you.

crackktheskyy

NosterAmorInvictus said:

Holy shit. You people are insane. Truly overly dramatic. I have news for you. The only "Queen of England", "snowflake", "bitches" commenting are the ones that are sooooooo put out by being asked to wait. I wouldn't want your damn wedding gift or your shitty attitude at my wedding anyway. Holy hell. I am utterly amazed that so many of you think we are the ones being rude when you so clearly do not understand how to be understanding, compassionate, or happy in general it seems. My time is precious, sure, but so is the union of two happy people in love. Grow up and get over yourselves.

PrettyGirlLost

bouncertony said:

I've been to a lot of weddings, all at different times of the day, I never thought twice about having a wedding reception end earlier in the day. Actually I went to one with an 8am ceramony and a breakfast reception at 8:30am, we were done by 11. It was actually pretty cool, even if I whined about getting up early. 

I've only gone to one with a gap. Big church wedding, reception site was less then 10 minutes away and it was an hour and half gap. At least that's what I told, I left after standing around for 30 minutes bored out of my mind and starving. So I figured I'd go grab something to eat and go home for a bit then go back later. Well, once I got home and ate I kind of forgot I was going to go back and fell asleep. I had brought their gift (of cash, I like giving cash) with me to the wedding and stuck it in my suit pocket, and well totally forgot about it until several days later when I was taking my suit to the cleaners and saw an envelope sticking out. Honestly, I didn't feel too bad about it.

If you want a daytime wedding, you might not be able to have a night time reception. That's really not a big deal. But just having your guests stand around with their thumbs up their asses, that is.

This.

And he's a guy so good fucking luck claiming he's being a bitch because he's on his rag too. . .

bouncertony

Hey, when I get married someday, do I get to holler about it being my day? Or is that a brides only thing?

NosterAmorInvictus

Actually no. It's not the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not sure when weddings became about the guests more than the couple getting married, because I've never been to a wedding and even thought about whether there was a gap or not. I've been to all kinds of weddings. Some with ceremonies and receptions at the same location, some with 1-3 hour gaps between, some with long distance travel between the ceremony and reception. I enjoyed them all. They were fun and joyous occasions. I never felt impositioned. They can do what they want. I was nothing but happy for them. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Butterflyz419

Well if it's such commonly understood etiquette why isn't it easily found in any number of etiquette books? Even if it was, it Seems to me that a lot of people here are violating etiquette when it suits them. I guess next we should take out the pitchforks to everyone who stays at the reception to the end forcing their guests to stay later than they want to. Next we can go after those gift-grubbers who have their mothers host their shower. Then people who have their weddings on Friday or Sunday, it's really so inconsiderate for those who have to work during the week. And morning weddings? I want to sleep in on a Saturday not get up early for some boring ceremony, you know?

KGold80

bouncertony said:

Hey, when I get married someday, do I get to holler about it being my day? Or is that a brides only thing?

SITB

No, sadly my fiance even said something about it being "our day and we can do what we want". Uhm...no, sweetie. We can't. He's since come around to realize that yes, it's our day, but that doesn't mean we have the right to be assholes to our guests.

Jen4948

NosterAmorInvictus said: Actually no. It's not the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not sure when weddings became about the guests more than the couple getting married, because I've never been to a wedding and even thought about whether there was a gap or not. I've been to all kinds of weddings. Some with ceremonies and receptions at the same location, some with 1-3 hour gaps between, some with long distance travel between the ceremony and reception. I enjoyed them all. They were fun and joyous occasions. I never felt impositioned. They can do what they want. I was nothing but happy for them. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Because contrary to your belief, wedding receptions have always been about the guests more than the couple getting married.  They are held to thank the guests for coming to the wedding and are not showcases for the bride and groom's egos.  The fact that you don't mind waiting around for who knows how long on the couple because you love them so much does not negate that it is a violation of etiquette for hosts to keep their guests waiting for prolonged periods while they take pictures or do things that don't include their guests.  Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

crackktheskyy

Perhaps syllogistic logical reasoning will help.

If you have invited guests to your wedding, you are a host(ess).

When you are a host(ess), the comfort and enjoyment of your guests is your responsibility because you have invited them to your event.

A reception is a way of thanking guests for attending your wedding.

To thank you guests, you should not do things that are inconvenient, otherwise it is not a very good way of thanking them.

Therefore, to be a good hostess, you should thank your guests appropriately by not inconveniencing them with gaps.

The reason some of us are pointing this out, is because it is bad etiquette to be a bad host(ess), and you are a bad host(ess) when you plan your ceremony/reception in such a way that you know will inconvenience your guests but determine that your needs supercede your duties to host your guests properly.

ashleyep

PrettyGirlLost said:

Butterflyz419 said:

One more from Miss Manners herself: http://books.google.com/books?id=O2O-pf-AqWUC&lpg=PP1&dq=rude gap between wedding ceremony and reception&pg=PA283#v=onepage&q=leave&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=O2O-pf-AqWUC&lpg=PP1&dq=rude gap between wedding ceremony and reception&pg=PA283#v=onepage&q=leave&f=false

You know what I'm not finding in those etiquette books, much discussion of all gaps of any length for any reason being rude. Hmm...I think it's your turn to find some back up for your argument.

I'm not sure if Miss Manner's has ever written on the topic, I think she has, but I'm gonna start with common freaking sense, then point to the numerous people in this thread explaining why they are rude, then refer you to the Worst Wedding thread on the Etiquette forum where one of the repeated items in "worst" weddings has been gaps.  And the people participating in that thread are from all over the US, Canada, and beyond in some cases.

If that isn't enough to convince you that gaps are rude, then I don't know what is.

Apparently in the now out of print "Guide to Painfully Proper Weddings" she states on page 177:

Guests should not be expected to wait for an extended period of time between the ceremony and reception. I found it cited in this Wikipedia Article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_North_America#Weddings

@Butterflyz419

PrettyGirlLost

NosterAmorInvictus said:

Actually no. It's not the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not sure when weddings became about the guests more than the couple getting married, because I've never been to a wedding and even thought about whether there was a gap or not. I've been to all kinds of weddings. Some with ceremonies and receptions at the same location, some with 1-3 hour gaps between, some with long distance travel between the ceremony and reception. I enjoyed them all. They were fun and joyous occasions. I never felt impositioned. They can do what they want. I was nothing but happy for them. Why is that so difficult to understand?

That's great that you personally didn't care that the happy couple was being rude and wasting your time, but that doesn't mean that what they did was proper hosting or proper etiquette.

Receptions have always been about the guests- they are hosted for the guests.  The point of the reception is for the hosts and the bride and groom to "receive" their wedding guests and thank them for attending the ceremony and publicly supporting their marriage.

The point of the reception was lost once the wedding industry came along and started brianwashing all of you into thinking that your wedding day is your Most Beautiful Perfect Special Day and that it's YOUR DAY and you can be as rude tacky and classless as you want and everyone will just go along with it because they loooove you so much and are honored to waste their time and money on you.

I love going to properly hosted weddings.  I hate standing around with my thumbs up my ass, wasting time, all dressed up with no place to go.

Butterflyz419

What is "an extended period of time"? That's very vague. I don't think an hour would qualify, especially if one can reasonably assume that guests would spend some portion of that time checking into the hotel. As I said though, everyone here has likely violated some type of wedding etiquette when it made sense to them, so let's find our next pitchfork target.

Nuri1982

To those people that contributed meaningful information in a civil manned (regardless of opinion) thank you for focusing on the person's question at hand and providing her with useful information. I don't know the bride in question but I'm sure she appreciates it. 

It really sickens me to see grown women judge each other and call each other names over something like this. We are talking about a wedding here people, folks have them everyday, it's not diplomatic relations between nuclear powers. And even if it isn't the most wonderful special day ever, you and your guests will get through it just fine.

I joined The Knot to help me plan my wedding and have a community of brides and grooms to share thoughts and ideas with. However, this community has presented to me time and again judgement, vitriolic speak and petty behavior with very little support or information exchanged. This thread has confirmed my decision to cancel my account. I'm sick of people asking a question or looking for advice and being told they are stupid, selfish or in other ways shamed for asking for help. Peace Out,Offbeat Bride is better anyways.

PrettyGirlLost

Butterflyz419 said:

Well if it's such commonly understood etiquette why isn't it easily found in any number of etiquette books? Even if it was, it Seems to me that a lot of people here are violating etiquette when it suits them. I guess next we should take out the pitchforks to everyone who stays at the reception to the end forcing their guests to stay later than they want to. Next we can go after those gift-grubbers who have their mothers host their shower. Then people who have their weddings on Friday or Sunday, it's really so inconsiderate for those who have to work during the week. And morning weddings? I want to sleep in on a Saturday not get up early for some boring ceremony, you know?

Nobody forces guest to stay later than they want- that notion is just ridiculous.  Adults have free will and can exercise it whenever they want to , and if they feel guilty because they want to leave early, but I as the Bride don't, that's on them.  I'm not going to feel guilty or rude for because they have issues of guilt.

Plus, the reception is not thrown in honor of the bride and groom- it's thrown in honor of the guests, and so as the guests of honor, they can leave whenever the hell they want to.

No one here thinks it's rude for mothers or family members to host bridal showers- we just think it's rude for the Bride to host her own shower.

No one here thinks weddings held on days other than Saturday are rude.  We just tell people they might get slightly higher declines.

Gaps are rude because they waste your guests time and they show a lack of proper hosting.  Again, you can choose to use a lack of support in "etiquette" books as validation for your gap, but no one here is going to buy into that logic and I guarantee some of your guests will bitch about it behind your back.

PrettyGirlLost

ashleyep said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

Butterflyz419 said:

One more from Miss Manners herself: http://books.google.com/books?id=O2O-pf-AqWUC&lpg=PP1&dq=rude gap between wedding ceremony and reception&pg=PA283#v=onepage&q=leave&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=O2O-pf-AqWUC&lpg=PP1&dq=rude gap between wedding ceremony and reception&pg=PA283#v=onepage&q=leave&f=false

You know what I'm not finding in those etiquette books, much discussion of all gaps of any length for any reason being rude. Hmm...I think it's your turn to find some back up for your argument.

I'm not sure if Miss Manner's has ever written on the topic, I think she has, but I'm gonna start with common freaking sense, then point to the numerous people in this thread explaining why they are rude, then refer you to the Worst Wedding thread on the Etiquette forum where one of the repeated items in "worst" weddings has been gaps.  And the people participating in that thread are from all over the US, Canada, and beyond in some cases.

If that isn't enough to convince you that gaps are rude, then I don't know what is.

Apparently in the now out of print "Guide to Painfully Proper Weddings" she states on page 177:

Guests should not be expected to wait for an extended period of time between the ceremony and reception. I found it cited in this Wikipedia Article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_North_America#Weddings

@Butterflyz419

There you go @butterflyz419

sydalish

For all of the holier than thou gap haters...

The OP is talking about 30-45min gap, tops. That's IF her guests book it from the church to the reception site asap after the end of the ceremony. She's also taking into consideration the needs of her guests, she's being thoughtful NOT rude.

Assuming these details are being provided clearly and in advance, how is it a major inconvenience to have such a minor gap between events? It's not. No matter how many "super funny" gifs you post.

To the OP - I hope you have a wonderful wedding day The fact that you care about and want to make sure your guests are accommodated fairly will be appreciated. Do what makes sense for you and your guests, whether it fits precisely with the status quo or not. As long as everyone is aware of the timing of events ahead of time, it should all work out fine.

sarawifenow

Nuri1982 said:

To those people that contributed meaningful information in a civil manned (regardless of opinion) thank you for focusing on the person's question at hand and providing her with useful information. I don't know the bride in question but I'm sure she appreciates it. 

It really sickens me to see grown women judge each other and call each other names over something like this. We are talking about a wedding here people, folks have them everyday, it's not diplomatic relations between nuclear powers. And even if it isn't the most wonderful special day ever, you and your guests will get through it just fine.

I joined The Knot to help me plan my wedding and have a community of brides and grooms to share thoughts and ideas with. However, this community has presented to me time and again judgement, vitriolic speak and petty behavior with very little support or information exchanged. This thread has confirmed my decision to cancel my account. I'm sick of people asking a question or looking for advice and being told they are stupid, selfish or in other ways shamed for asking for help. Peace Out,Offbeat Bride is better anyways.

Kthanksbye!

ashleyep

You're right ladies. Your wedding day is your day. You can do whatever you want. Your guests love you, which means they'll suck it up and deal with the gap, but it doesn't mean they'll like it. They love you, so they'll lie about what an inconvenience it is when you ask them. You're the one planning the day, you can do whatever you want, but there's no rule that your guests have to like it, no matter how much they care about.

If you go into the day with the idea that YOU are the lucky one to have so many people willing to celebrate with you, rather than the idea that THEY are lucky that you have deigned to include them, you will keep their comfort in mind. You won't have a big gap and an evening wedding because it's what you've always dreamed about.

I've been to Catholic weddings with gaps, and I've been to Catholic weddings without gaps. My own Catholic wedding will not have a gap. The ones with gaps have sucked. I was an out of town guest, it was 100 degrees that day, and I was sweating from being in the heat. I had a few hours to kill, what was I going to do? Hang out in the room in the AC? For 3 hours? Go to the pool? But then I'd have to re-do my hair and makeup. I ended up doing the pool thing and not getting my hair wet, but it really sucked putting the bra and dress back on that I sweat through earlier. It's just awkward. And annoying. But I'll put up with it because I'm your friend and I love you and want to celebrate with you. I will be nothing but a gracious guest - because etiquette goes both ways. But I'll complain about it behind your back.

If it's too late to change your reception to avoid a gap, it's too late and there's nothing you can do. Fine. I'm not going to tell you that you need to move your reception up 3 hours 2 months before the big day. But understand that you might be inconveniencing your guests and accept that fact.

And if gaps don't bother you, then great! Cash bars don't bother me! But I can understand why others are offended by them, so I'm going to avoid it. You will never see me argue that a cash bar is okay on this message board.

And if you're a lurker or just engaged, remember this when you start to plan your ceremony and reception. Just because your guests don't complain to your face doesn't mean they're not complaining.

sarawifenow

sydalish said:

For all of the holier than thou gap haters...

The OP is talking about 30-45min gap, tops. That's IF her guests book it from the church to the reception site asap after the end of the ceremony. She's also taking into consideration the needs of her guests, she's being thoughtful NOT rude.

Assuming these details are being provided clearly and in advance, how is it a major inconvenience to have such a minor gap between events? It's not. No matter how many "super funny" gifs you post.

To the OP - I hope you have a wonderful wedding day The fact that you care about and want to make sure your guests are accommodated fairly will be appreciated. Do what makes sense for you and your guests, whether it fits precisely with the status quo or not. As long as everyone is aware of the timing of events ahead of time, it should all work out fine.

It is not that expensive to add an extra hour onto your reception...asking your guests to wait around is rude and, to me, is more "holier than thou" (as you put it) than accomodating them properly.

PrettyGirlLost

Butterflyz419 said:

What is "an extended period of time"? That's very vague. I don't think an hour would qualify, especially if one can reasonably assume that guests would spend some portion of that time checking into the hotel. As I said though, everyone here has likely violated some type of wedding etiquette when it made sense to them, so let's find our next pitchfork target.

An hour between the ceremony and the reception- read cocktail hour- is certainly too much time.  Why would it be reasonable to assume ppl are going to check into a hotel?  If I need to travel for an OOT wedding then I'm going to arrive the night before, not the day of.  Especially if I have to fly.

People make etiquette mistakes out of honest ignorance, or because they choose to be a bad host, as in the case of an afternoon wedding ceremony but you want to have an evening reception.  That's a choice, not something that you did because it made sense to you. 

And everyone here who "has" to have a gap, if you want to do that and risk pissing ppl off, go for it, but own the fact that it's rude and stop trying to rationalize/justify it.

NosterAmorInvictus

Wow. I guess I'm a classless, selfish, queen that has no idea what etiquette is. I'm still happy that I'm not like the rest of you who can't get over yourselves just for a day to honor the union of a friend and the person he/she loves. You all go on to be great hostesses. I'm going to be the bride smiling and happy on my wedding day...not ripping my hair out over what my guests are going to think of me. I already know how they love me and accept me or they wouldn't be there. I'm Nuri1982. I'm out.

AddieCake

You know who rocked a gap? Lauren Hutton. 

Jen4948

Butterflyz419 said:

What is "an extended period of time"? That's very vague. I don't think an hour would qualify, especially if one can reasonably assume that guests would spend some portion of that time checking into the hotel. As I said though, everyone here has likely violated some type of wedding etiquette when it made sense to them, so let's find our next pitchfork target.

First, lose the "pitchfork target" crap.

Second, two rudes don't make a polite.  Past etiquette violations on anyone's part don't justify present or future ones.

Third, "an extended period of time" is probably more than an hour.  If photos that don't require the couple together are taken before the ceremony, the remaining photos with them together shouldn't take longer than that.  And even the most polite people are going to get impatient if they have to wait longer than that for the couple and wedding party.

Butterflyz419

The "guests are adults" bit applies equally to gaps. And as Miss Manners points out, the bridal couple is supposed to leave early because the party is in their honor. Notice that the toasts are made to the couple, not to the guests. Once they "receive the guests" they needn't stay and proper etiquette says they shouldn't. Just because you don't care what the etiquette books say doesn't make you right. But of course now you sound like everyone defending gaps. Just because you want to stay til the end doesn't make it good etiquette.

jdluvr06

Nuri1982 said:

To those people that contributed meaningful information in a civil manned (regardless of opinion) thank you for focusing on the person's question at hand and providing her with useful information. I don't know the bride in question but I'm sure she appreciates it. 

It really sickens me to see grown women judge each other and call each other names over something like this. We are talking about a wedding here people, folks have them everyday, it's not diplomatic relations between nuclear powers. And even if it isn't the most wonderful special day ever, you and your guests will get through it just fine.

I joined The Knot to help me plan my wedding and have a community of brides and grooms to share thoughts and ideas with. However, this community has presented to me time and again judgement, vitriolic speak and petty behavior with very little support or information exchanged. This thread has confirmed my decision to cancel my account. I'm sick of people asking a question or looking for advice and being told they are stupid, selfish or in other ways shamed for asking for help. Peace Out,Offbeat Bride is better anyways.

Everyone here is actually very nice. Things tend to get heated though. Especially when a snowflake comes on and asks a question (I'm not talking about you but in general) but the minute said question is answered honestly and isn't the answer they wanted they start saying we're the rude ones or mean or bullies. People here tend to be nice and respectful until people don't extend the same courtesy, then they put their gloves on.  

PrettyGirlLost

NosterAmorInvictus said:

Wow. I guess I'm a classless, selfish, queen that has no idea what etiquette is. I'm still happy that I'm not like the rest of you who can't get over yourselves just for a day to honor the union of a friend and the person he/she loves. You all go on to be great hostesses. I'm going to be the bride smiling and happy on my wedding day...not ripping my hair out over what my guests are going to think of me. I already know how they love me and accept me or they wouldn't be there. I'm Nuri1982. I'm out.

I'm not going to be ripping my hair out either because I know my guests are going to be super happy that my reception is directly following my ceremony- some have already said as much, they are going to love the food and drinks we are hosting all night- some have already seen the menu on our wedding website and are really excited about it, and they are going to have a blast dancing with us after dinner.

Sure they all love me, but they don't expect me to treat them like shit and take advantage of their love just because I'm getting married.

ashleyep

PrettyGirlLost said:

Butterflyz419 said:

What is "an extended period of time"? That's very vague. I don't think an hour would qualify, especially if one can reasonably assume that guests would spend some portion of that time checking into the hotel. As I said though, everyone here has likely violated some type of wedding etiquette when it made sense to them, so let's find our next pitchfork target.

An hour between the ceremony and the reception- read cocktail hour- is certainly too much time.  Why would it be reasonable to assume ppl are going to check into a hotel?  If I need to travel for an OOT wedding then I'm going to arrive the night before, not the day of.  Especially if I have to fly.

People make etiquette mistakes out of honest ignorance, or because they choose to be a bad host, as in the case of an afternoon wedding ceremony but you want to have an evening reception.  That's a choice, not something that you did because it made sense to you. 

And everyone here who "has" to have a gap, if you want to do that and risk pissing ppl off, go for it, but own the fact that it's rude and stop trying to rationalize/justify it.

To be fair, assuming your guests need to check into a hotel is not unreasonable. If I'm driving an hour or two to the wedding, I'm only staying at the hotel for the wedding night, not the night before. I very rarely stay two nights, but I almost always stay one (booze!). 

That being said, I'm a big girl. I can call the hotel and ask for an early check-in, or I can ask them to hold my things and check in after the reception.

I actually am assuming that a lot of my guests will check in after the ceremony. But that just means they they'll get to the cocktail hour at 7:30 instead of when it starts at 7 (or 6:45 if guests sprint to their cars from the church and rush over - my venue is prepared to accept early guests).