Mosque in NYC

cengle

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:a40a112a-a663-46a3-bd98-cc9da35ac265">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]MY FI was already in the army when it happened and was there till only about a year ago. He also doesn't think it should be built.
Posted by JSweetieXO[/QUOTE]

So you're okay with completely disregarding the 1st Amendment to the Constitution? Or does that right to religious freedom only apply to you and those that have the same religion as you?

[Deleted User]

Wow. I am not even commenting on this one.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:30c2feef-ed07-4a58-b103-4f50bc3249f9">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mosque in NYC : Word.  Let's not forget who trained Osama and taught him to find the weaknesses?  If we were really going to start pointing fingers of blame at a country, it should be towards Saudi Arabia.  But they have oil and are economically important so we can't cut off our own nose! *eyeroll* 
Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]

Ah yes. Also those non-existant WMDs in Iraq? HAD they turned out to be real they likely would have been made with US technology thanks to our support of Hussein in the 1980s...

Moose, Franz Ferdinand was the archduke of Austria-Hungary. He was assasinated in Sarajevo, which led to a chain of events, which led to a few declarations of war. And then the truth came out - pretty much every country in Europe was involved in a secret pack with one or more other countries to go to war on said country's behalf. Which is how everyone got involved in WWI.

LD1970

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:d14bd21c-9bb6-436c-9357-0b1cac241ea9">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mosque in NYC : So you're okay with completely disregarding the 1st Amendment to the Constitution? Or does that right to religious freedom only apply to you and those that have the same religion as you?
Posted by cengle[/QUOTE]
"... but some animals are more equal than others."<div>
</div><div>Orwell was way too bright.</div>

wadingmoose

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:e1727498-540f-44b3-bd8c-b24cf9f8d180">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mosque in NYC : Franz Ferdinand, Archduke of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, was killed by an extremist (there's that pesky damn word again) from.... Serbia so they could be free.
Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]


Well, we know that extremists can start wars.  And these folks did here too because it took very little time at all for the US to declare a war that they're STILL fighting.

I think it's sad that someone in the US Military fighting for FREEDOM is against having this muslim mosque/community centre built. 

AmoroAgain

Well shiut guys... I was dating a Muslim at the time of his attacks, AND my uncle was flying an East Coast route at the time of the attacks, so that makes MY opinion more valid than yours!

Anysunrise

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:1bae83e4-cf45-43dd-856d-f40858875a28">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mosque in NYC : "... but some animals are more equal than others." Orwell was way too bright.
Posted by LD1970[/QUOTE]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So much love.

aplatanada

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:efbfef0d-2050-48f6-8440-0b37dc4dec7f">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mosque in NYC : I love you and your awesome logic and story. 
Posted by AmoroAgain[/QUOTE]

*blushing*

It seriously chaps my hide that the "victims' sensitivity" has been hijacked by the opponents, especially when SO many survivors/family members have spoken out in support of the center. 

I mean, if we're talking sensitivity, go after all souvenir vendors hawking cheap disaster p@rn souvenirs made in China RIGHT at the site. Or the OTB (off Track Betting) that's in the area or the strip club.

<a href="http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/08/dear_rest-of-am.php" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/08/dear_rest-of-am.php</a>

jayjoe

 I have not read this whole thread, but i will just add this:

I work two blocks from the WTC. I watched people jump/fall to their deaths. I watched those buildings crumble in front of my face. I still remember the voicemails i got from my mom that morning. My train entrance/exit was in the wtc and for obvious reasons i got in late. Four messages in a row. By the last one, she was sobbing into the phone, begging me to please call her back. I will forever hear those messages in my head. I can still smell the smoke, i can still hear the screams. I lost three very close friends, they worked for Cantor. They never had a chance. All these years later i still have nightmares, i still cry often about it. I am crying now just writing this.

The irrational angry side of me is "fk them all!! i hate them!!" But the logical side that sees past the anger, as hard as it is sometimes is pretty much what i saw in the posts i read: this is america, there is religious freedom, its not on ground zero, you cannot blame large community for the acts of some, enough is enough. Let the Mosque be. Btw, and again if someone posted this, i apologize, there is already a Mosque a few blocks over and no one seems to care about that. Just let it be. Forgiveness is a mofo and i dont know if i will ever reach that point, but you wont see me at any of the protests going on over there.

JSweetieXO

I am not arguing my opinion just stating it. Bye.

Bec20

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:d8e7c5c1-7c4a-4423-bb99-0ad9953dadec">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]not necessarily.  lots of acts in history resulted in the start of wars or in countries joining wars already in progress...  assassination of archduke ferndinand, sinking of lusitania... and the bombing of pearl harbor
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

No no no. *facepalm*

Summary: Franz Ferdinand is shot.  People freak out, declare war on each other.  Only thing is that the war was years in the making... Germany dropping the Reassurance Treaty in 1890, the Franco-Prussian war in 1870-71, the Balkan Crises, the complex treaty systems, Germany wanting their "spot in the sun", Russia feeling as though she had to support Serbia this time around, Austria-Hungary controlling the Balkans, the Moroccan Crises, Russia and Austria-Hungary fearing that they would no longer be an empire, 4 countries (AH, Britain, France, Prussia) signing a treaty saying they would protect Belgian neutrality in the 1830s, the rush for Africa, etc.  The assassination was an excuse to start a war.

Serbia ACCEPTED the ultimatum, accepting blame for Franz Ferdianand's assassination.  They disagreed to one thing.  The instant it got back and they heard it wasn't all accepted, Austria declared war.  They were looking for an excuse.

As for the Lusitania, that is a myth and was the cause of Germany's unlimited submarine warfare (USW).  Everybody had a warning that Germany was going to be started USW, which Woodrow Wilson tried to convince Germany to stop.  There was no big reaction to it in the USA.  It was in 1915.  War was not declared by the USA until 1917.  Yeah.  Real quick reaction there. *rolls eyes*  The Zimmerman Telegram should get much more credit for bringing you guys into the war than the Lusitania's sinking.

Pearl Harbour, I'll give you.

Regarding the earlier comment about rights: Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms has been used as an example for several other countries writing charters, so I think we did pretty well too. =)

The mosque thing is ridiculous.  More Muslums died in the towers, as civilians on the planes, or in the Pentagon than the 19 terrorists.  They already own the building.  Plus, they're a peaceful religion.

One person I know was raised both Muslum (his dad's religion) and Catholic (his mom's).  He said they are nearly identical except for a few things that were clearly affected by changes after the books were written.

georgia_bride09

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:5c7a9a74-2a38-458e-9c8a-014a3dee00cf">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]Olive Garden has some kind of dessert that has a bunch of teeny tiny chocolate chips on the outside. I don't know how anyone could hate that. I think that dessert could unite the entire world. ETA: It is the black tie mousse cake. A kumbayah in my mouth.
Posted by zippityb[/QUOTE]

Mmm... teeny tiny chocolate chips are my favorite.

angie74

wow. there's so much stupid in this thread, I can't stand it. I sorta want the last 30 minutes of my life back from spending the time to read this

jnic0319- for being in PR you aren't very bright about self branding and being so F-ing opinionated.

Jsweetie- you're just as nuts.

jayjoe- I like what you just said up there

nugget- I like your opinions too. you haz smart.

aplatanada

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:ca6bc9f0-5d33-4760-8797-9499d6180917">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE] I have not read this whole thread, but i will just add this: I work two blocks from the WTC. I watched people jump/fall to their deaths. I watched those buildings crumble in front of my face. I still remember the voicemails i got from my mom that morning. My train entrance/exit was in the wtc and for obvious reasons i got in late. Four messages in a row. By the last one, she was sobbing into the phone, begging me to please call her back. I will forever hear those messages in my head. I can still smell the smoke, i can still hear the screams. I lost three very close friends, they worked for Cantor. They never had a chance. All these years later i still have nightmares, i still cry often about it. I am crying now just writing this. The irrational angry side of me is "fk them all!! i hate them!!" But the logical side that sees past the anger, as hard as it is sometimes is pretty much what i saw in the posts i read: this is america, there is religious freedom, its not on ground zero, you cannot blame large community for the acts of some, enough is enough. Let the Mosque be. Btw, and again if someone posted this, i apologize, there is already a Mosque a few blocks over and no one seems to care about that. Just let it be. Forgiveness is a mofo and i dont know if i will ever reach that point, but you wont see me at any of the protests going on over there.
Posted by jayjoe[/QUOTE]

THANK YOU.

NuggetBrain

Sweetie until you fix your wierdo Maxim-David's Bridal hybrid photo I cannot take anything you say seriously. 

Although I have a feeling that even if you replaced it with a photo of Stephen Hawking, an in-depth dissertation of the theory of relativity and a note from God saying "Don't worry, she's cool" I still wouldn't take anything you said seriously.

AmoroAgain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:953c94c3-67d1-46aa-969c-3b397840a64b">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mosque in NYC : *blushing* It seriously chaps my hide that the "victims' sensitivity" has been hijacked by the opponents, especially when SO many survivors/family members have spoken out in support of the center.  I mean, if we're talking sensitivity, go after all souvenir vendors hawking cheap disaster p@rn souvenirs made in China RIGHT at the site. Or the OTB (off Track Betting) that's in the area or the strip club. <a href="http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/08/dear_rest-of-am.php" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/08/dear_rest-of-am.php</a>
Posted by aplatanada[/QUOTE]
No, really, I love you. 

Jayjoe, I send you big hugs.  You've already started on the path of forgiveness by not blaming everyone for those terrible events.

jasmineh7777

Jayjoe- *hug* I can't imagine what you've gone through, but it really speaks to your character that you are working on forgiving.

georgia_bride09

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:26abf1be-94af-4262-9151-5cd0e915af7e">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]wow.  just wow. this is why i do not discuss religion.  or politics. 
Posted by mandysmear[/QUOTE]

DitTO. See me talking about chocolate chips? I also like pickles.

cengle

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:621c85c0-97cb-4475-b035-b7b5806c134d">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]I am not arguing my opinion just stating it. Bye.
Posted by JSweetieXO[/QUOTE]

Well, someone doesn't want to play today.  Why did you even bother?

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Regarding the earlier comment about rights: Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms has been used as an example for several other countries writing charters, so I think we did pretty well too.

I will give you that! More so I was referring to the fact that unlimited freedom of speech and religion don't exist in, say, France. Hence why the government can fine you for publishing something unflattering about them and why the government has banned Muslim female head dress in public.

laurenclaire1386

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:9b14d074-628b-4914-82b5-3531a3392c7b">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]Sweetie until you fix your wierdo Maxim-David's Bridal hybrid photo I cannot take anything you say seriously.  Although I have a feeling that even if you replaced it with a photo of Stephen Hawking, an in-depth dissertation of the theory of relativity and a note from God saying "Don't worry, she's cool" I still wouldn't take anything you said seriously.
Posted by NuggetBrain[/QUOTE]
Oh Nuggs. I love you so much.

My opinion? Building that mosque is something that's protected under the first amendment. Period. It's their constitutional right to do so, so it doesn't really matter whether or not anyone agrees with what they're doing. They're doing it lawfully. And if for some reason they end up not being able to build it, it will be a grave miscarriage of justice.

jasmineh7777

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:ba6f200b-b4b4-4e39-82c9-ad91da0207c7">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mosque in NYC : Oh Nuggs. I love you so much. My opinion? Building that mosque is something that's protected under the first amendment. Period. It's their constitutional right to do so, so it doesn't really matter whether or not anyone agrees with what they're doing. They're doing it lawfully. And if for some reason they end up not being able to build it, it will be a grave miscarriage of justice.
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Denying constitutional rights is not patriotic, so don't try and use that guise to deny this group their religious freedom.

wadingmoose

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:621c85c0-97cb-4475-b035-b7b5806c134d">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]I am not arguing my opinion just stating it. Bye.
Posted by JSweetieXO[/QUOTE]


So, what you're saying is you want to state your opinion and not have to back it up or support it in anyway.  Just "This Is My Belief, Don't Try To Talk to Me About It." 

Oki doki then, but it really says little for what you believe in that you are unwilling or unable to support it in a discussion.

tldh

There was a letter to the editor in Philly's paper today that has the best idea I've heard: build a church and a temple on either side of it.

Many have been saying for years that moderate Muslims have to stand up and take back their faith from terrorists.  They are doing just that.

AmoroAgain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:9b14d074-628b-4914-82b5-3531a3392c7b">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]Sweetie until you fix your wierdo Maxim-David's Bridal hybrid photo I cannot take anything you say seriously.  Although I have a feeling that even if you replaced it with a photo of Stephen Hawking, an in-depth dissertation of the theory of relativity and a note from God saying "Don't worry, she's cool" I still wouldn't take anything you said seriously.
Posted by NuggetBrain[/QUOTE]
Oh. My. God.  OHMYGOD.  This is the best slam I have ever read.  OMG.

mkrupar

I also read an article that the two biggest groups opposing the Mosque have in the past been on the other side of the religious debate. Stating that government CANNOT prevent religious groups from building regardless of the location. I find them all to be hypocritical. I wish I could find the article  it was very interesting to see that the groups opposing this have argued FOR religious groups in the past building where they want.

wadingmoose

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:e3aa50c4-a01b-4879-a522-7cd4bfe6e196">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]There was a letter to the editor in Philly's paper today that has the best idea I've heard: build a church and a temple on either side of it. Many have been saying for years that moderate Muslims have to stand up and take back their faith from terrorists.  They are doing just that.
Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]


You know, where I grew up, there are two churches across the street from each other.  I always thought that was strange.  And parking on Sundays was a disaster.

I don't see what the point is of building two additional churches there.  I'm sure that other religions are already adequately served by other churches they already have.  Especially considering my understanding is that attendance at religious services tends to be decreasing rather than increasing, no?

NuggetBrain

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:e3aa50c4-a01b-4879-a522-7cd4bfe6e196">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]There was a letter to the editor in Philly's paper today that has the best idea I've heard: build a church and a temple on either side of it. <strong>Many have been saying for years that moderate Muslims have to stand up and take back their faith from terrorists.  They are doing just that.</strong>
Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]

For real.  I don't think there's anything better than saying "we hate what happened here.  We hate how the crazies in our religion have warped it in the minds of so many.  We're going to build a community center that will teach our neighbors and the people in our community about what our religion is really about."

aplatanada

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:e3aa50c4-a01b-4879-a522-7cd4bfe6e196">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]There was a letter to the editor in Philly's paper today that has the best idea I've heard: <strong>build a church and a temple on either side of it.</strong> Many have been saying for years that moderate Muslims have to stand up and take back their faith from terrorists.  They are doing just that.
Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]

See, to me this makes no sense and honestly infurates me. The center has stated from the very beginning that it will be an <strong>interfaith </strong>center for religious understanding and peace. Why should a church and a synagogue have to go next door to give it legitimacy?

And seriously- moderate Muslims- the vast majority of Muslims- HAVE been advocating these issues for a long time, before 9/11 and since.  It seems that "society" is the one that doesn't want to listen.

zippityb

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_mosque-nyc?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:76e4ffe4-5560-4d07-94a7-712b2622cde5Post:bade307a-13b6-4c12-b631-c54a735ceb3f">Re: Mosque in NYC</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mosque in NYC : You know, where I grew up, there are two churches across the street from each other.  I always thought that was strange.  And parking on Sundays was a disaster. I don't see what the point is of building two additional churches there.  I'm sure that other religions are already adequately served by other churches they already have.  Especially considering my understanding is that attendance at religious services tends to be decreasing rather than increasing, no?
Posted by wadingmoose[/QUOTE]

Was it the edge of the universe like the two Starbucks across the street from each other?