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He wants a pre-nup, I feel horrible and insulted.

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Re: He wants a pre-nup, I feel horrible and insulted.

  • preloopreloo member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    sarahufl said:
    wow, this is 30 minutes of my life I will never get back.

    I feel sorry for people who think their lives are over if they turn 30 and don't have a man around. Enjoy life for what it is, travel, move cool places. Or get married when you are 22. Who cares? Just me the best of your situation.
    Sorry for wasting your time, I guess, but anyway, all the glory of single life didn't appeal to me because I hate one night stands, "hookup culture", drinking, experimental phases, and I even really dislike traveling if I'm alone.  I enjoy resorts and romantic getaways but the idea of hiking or going to some jungle to find myself sounds like my personal hell.  I don't mean this in a rude way- just that the things some people are evidently able to enjoy while being single are all things that have zero appeal for me.  I have hobbies, of course, but they're not ones that would be more fun if I were single.
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    preloo said:
    @PrettyGirlLost

    I didn't intentionally ignore you, I've gotten a lot of responses.  Sorry about that.

    1.) I didn't know what MUD was, and after being told to seek therapy 100 times (after I already said I would, no less!) it was safe to conclude it was some kind of mental disorder.  I don't know all the internet abbreviations, but I conceded I was wrong when someone told me what it meant.

    2.) I'm not making the entire board into bad guys.  In fact, I thanked the vast majority of posters for being helpful and further explaining reasons for getting a prenup.  It was really helpful!  However, that doesn't mean I'm not still going to be resentful that I was insulted and pseudo-psychoanalyzed (people making assumptions not about my current state of anxiety, but about my life as a whole).  Luckily, that wasn't the majority of the comments but I'm not going to say those were helpful, because they weren't. 

    3.) I don't have a problem with anyone telling me to seek therapy.  In fact, numerous times I said I was open to it.  I'm not 100% sure it's an awesome idea, because I don't know if I'll be able to find a low-cost option (and in those 15 years I saw NUMEROUS therapists, all of whom were somewhat useless) but yah, I'm open to it.  I resent being told to seek therapy millions of times after I said I would do it, but I'm just guessing those people didn't read all the comments.  A lot of things might be getting lost in this thread.  I'm sorry that you haven't found a therapist that works for you yet, but I hope that you are able to in the future.  Don't give up!

    As for "everything I hear" I'm going by my older friends, my mother, and her friends who are single.  I know more unhappy older single women than happy older single women.  In fact, even the single women I know in their 20s seem to have a pretty unhappy existence because guys are constantly using them for sex.  Obviously, a small sample size- but you asked where I'm hearing this stuff, so there goes.  I regularly hear from 30+ women that the only men who approach them are middle-aged.  Are they generally unhappy people though?  I know a few people who are just miserable no matter if they are single or in a relationship, and they are typically single because their attitudes drive other people away.  Are the younger girls unhappy because they are seeking out men who don't want to commit to a relationship, pretending to be ok with just sex, but they actually want more?  You can't be used for sex if you don't go through with the sex.

    Don't worry about me living in this state 24/7 because I don't.  Anxiety isn't necessarily a constant.  For me it comes in spurts, brought on by triggers (this situation was a trigger, and then some of the comments were triggers) but ordinarily I'm fine.  Therapy has been tough for me because I tend not to be in high-anxiety mode when I'm at the therapist, and sometimes there is little to talk about.  It's one reason why journaling and meditation have actually been more helpful for me than therapy.  If you find one you have this thread to discuss though!  Good luck!


    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • preloopreloo member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    @PrettyGirlLost

    Fair point, i don't really know the whole lives of the single women I know who are miserable.  Some of them I know for a fact chase the wrong guys...they like the "bad boys" and are then weirdly confused when it doesn't work out.  But whenever I was optimistic about being single when I as younger, my mom always reminded me of how all her attractive 30+ friends only got approached by ugly men 20 years their senior, how life was over for them, etc etc.  I've confronted her about this before and she insists she was just telling the truth and "you don't have anything to worry about anyway, you're engaged" but it does stick with you!  I didn't have this mindset before my mom started dating, tbh.  I worried about getting married a bit, but I never worried about being divorced or single later in life.

    My mom also made some bad decisions while dating but insisted she was only miserable because "men are pigs".  She would date the sexy, risky guys and ignore guys who were kind to her.  So yeah, looking back, there was a lot more to the story.  

    I've since banned all anti-man talk with my mother, but maybe if I go into therapy at some point, that needs to be the main topic.  It only just occurred to me how corrosive that probably was.


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  • preloopreloo member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    @SKPM

    No you have a great point :)  Its possible that the reason they haven't found someone is because they have habits and behaviors that sabotage their dating lives, like drinking too much or making unhealthy decisions...since I'm not trained in this area I tend not to delve that deeply into other people's lives, but it actually makes a lot of sense.
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  • thisismynickname2thisismynickname2 member
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    preloo said:
    Well I'm marrying a guy who could do a lot better than me.  It's realistic to think that another woman could steal him down the road when I'm less physically attractive.  My parents are divorced so maybe this is just my childhood talking but I want security and I feel like a prenup takes that away.
    I'm sorry I didn't have time to read through 7 pages before providing my opinion.

    With all due respect to your feelings:
    a) He has a right to protect a business and is smart to do so. I'm not young, and have business and legal degrees, and have seen many divorces. This is necessary.
    b) If you want security, get some girl-power self esteem in you and get educated, get work experience, and be able to function on your own. Take pride in your ability to be Ms. Independent. Nevermind divorce, what if he was in a car accident a few years down the line, died or was very severely injured and unable to work, and left you with nothing?  You need to provide your own security, my dear. 
    c) Will the pre-nup also protect you? If he divorces you for x,y,z reason, under a variety of personal and financial circumstances will you be provided for in some way?  I believe in pre-nups but not one-sided pre-nups. 
    d) Again, with all due respect, saying that you want security and access to his business can be perceived as a wee bit gold-digging. I know that's not your intent, but when you sit down to have a rationale conversation about this, don't act like you're a helpless princess that needs to be provided for. Some men prey on low self-esteem; don't be that girl. 


    ________________________________


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  • preloopreloo member
    10 Comments 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    @thisismynickname

    I totally understand why you did not have the time to read through all 7 pages, lol.  Anyway, an update: I'm OK with the pre-nup after learning more about it.  I actually have a full time job/career so I make my own money, but to me it was more the principle of the matter. However I realize it's a pretty standard/smart choice for a business owner.
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  • Amyzen83Amyzen83 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer First Anniversary
    OP, I just have to give you kudos for sticking around hearing our thoughts and opinions, and honestly based on what you must be experiencing, you seem to be taking our advice and criticism much better than most! Thank you for sticking around, addressing each point, and not doing a post and run or flat out deleting your post! I'm sorry you are having anxiety issues, and I hope you can find a person that can help you work through it. I have anxiety too now and then, it was much worse mixed with depression when I was in my early 20s, so I get it. Also if you continue to post, keep in mind that even though you may have strong opinions, however justified they may be, I'd stay away from generalized stereotypes because some people may find it offensive. For example there might be some very nice Russian women who wouldn't think of living the way you described. I sincerely wish you all the best.
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  • MollyandDMollyandD member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    preloo said:

    @Mandafly84


    How do you know I spend all my time thinking about those things?  Because I got mad about them on an Internet forum once?  How do you know I don't already have a job, and several other fulfilling hobbies?  

    That's like saying "Oh, racism makes you mad?  Maybe you should take up yoga!"

    I have a very full life, just certain things really get my goat.  I'm sure everyone has their pet peeves that rile them up and make them mad, and I doubt I'm that unusual.

    ETA: I don't mean this in an attacking way...just saying you can't possibly infer such things from reading a few posts on the 'net.  
    I don't think your analogy or racism and yoga fits that situation at all. I'm glad you are ok now. Prenups are not bad. They are a seatbelt. You hope you don't need one, but just in case... I'm going to have one, and I trust my fiancé more than anything in the world. He is perfect, and I have no fears of him cheating. If I did, I wouldn't marry him. Still, we both want a prenup. I'm 25, and I know that I will acquire assets throughout my life. I already own a home. Prenup will just be my seatbelt.
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    preloo said:
    @PrettyGirlLost

    Fair point, i don't really know the whole lives of the single women I know who are miserable.  Some of them I know for a fact chase the wrong guys...they like the "bad boys" and are then weirdly confused when it doesn't work out.  But whenever I was optimistic about being single when I as younger, my mom always reminded me of how all her attractive 30+ friends only got approached by ugly men 20 years their senior, how life was over for them, etc etc.  That sounds like your mother has her own baggage that she was trying to pawn off on you.  I've confronted her about this before and she insists she was just telling the truth and "you don't have anything to worry about anyway, you're engaged" but it does stick with you!  Try to unstick that baloney from your mind!  I didn't have this mindset before my mom started dating, tbh.  Your mother was definitely projecting her own issues and fears on to you.  Ignore her on this subject. I worried about getting married a bit, but I never worried about being divorced or single later in life.

    My mom also made some bad decisions while dating but insisted she was only miserable because "men are pigs".  She would date the sexy, risky guys and ignore guys who were kind to her.  So yeah, looking back, there was a lot more to the story.  

    I've since banned all anti-man talk with my mother, good! but maybe if I go into therapy at some point, that needs to be the main topic.  It only just occurred to me how corrosive that probably was.  Aw, I'm sorry your mom had a bad influence on you in this respect, but it is good that you are recognizing this now.




    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • afox007afox007 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    preloo said:
    My fiance and I are both young and have modest savings but he owns his own company, and so that is a large asset. He says that he would like a pre-nup which would cover this company's earnings, but nothing after this company (so if he goes onto another company later, that wouldn't be part of it). Some investor of his recommended this, and I can't even tell you how furious I am at this busybody for trying to mess things up. I take this as a direct insult to me, a sign that he doesn't even want to marry me. Divorce is not an option for me, and he knows it- so basically, this prenup is just covering HIS ass in case he wants to leave me for some slutty young secretary years down the road. Men leave women for no reason all the time, and I worry about it a lot since my parents are divorced, so this makes me VERY upset and hurt. I want divorce to be HARD so he can't run out on me easily, and there he goes, making divorce a super-fun easy route with this sh*tty prenup. I don't want to sign it, but more than that, I'm extremely hurt and I feel betrayed. To me this is a sign he doesn't even want to get married. I'm not materialistic and I've never shown that tendency in our 5+ years together. All I want is a marriage that is stable and secure and I feel like a prenup takes that away from me.
    There are 7 pages so I don't know if this has been covered, but divorce IS HARD. FI and I will have been together for over 2 years by the time his divorce is finalized and we got together 6 months after he left her. We even got a separation agreement signed by her and there are still a million hoops to jump through.

    Counseling would probably be a good idea, but don't look at this as him planning for divorce. Since the idea came from an investor I wouldn't be surprised if the investor was worried that the company could be dissolved if anything happened and was considering pulling his funding. The fact that your FI only wants the prenup to apply to the current company is a good sign.
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  • fionahalliwellfionahalliwell member
    100 Comments 25 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper
    My mom was 37 when she married my dad. She probably worried about it somewhat, but I mean, she knew that it was worth waiting for the right person and time. 

    I'm 20 and I feel the same way you do about "single life." I've never had an interest in bars, casual dating, hookups, all that. But that doesn't mean that I have to be married tomorrow! I am totally single and I've got a really full and wonderful life without a guy. Do I want to get married? Of course! Someday, when the guy is right, and I feel more settled in my personal life. But not enjoying things like hookups is absolutely no reason to fear singledom. There are plenty of things anyone can do whether in or out of a relationship that have nothing to do with bars, hookups, or any of that. 

    Don't take this the wrong way...are you maybe too young and too afraid of being alone to get married? You definitely don't have to go into the jungle to find yourself to get over your fear of being alone. It just takes confidence in the fact that you are enough and that you don't need anyone else to "complete" you or make sure you don't become a spinster. And finding that takes some work. But it's worth it if it means that you lead a happier overall life. 

    I know, it seems nuts to hear a 20-year-old tell someone four years her senior that she's "too young," but sometimes, an outside eye helps. 
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  • mimiphinmimiphin member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited February 2014
    Oh lordy, where to begin, When I got to page 2 I thought how many more pages can there be!!

    (This is all for @Preloo)
    1. Pre-nups are not an automatic divorce, FI and I are getting one for our Fur-babies, We have two and I will take the younger one but in no way am I taking the older one and  they are not being split up unless the older one dies. It just gives me piece of mind to know that they will be taken care of, and that I won't get the little shit (who I love dearly...)

    2. I am sorry that you have mental issues and I know how hard it is, but you need to re-talk to your insurance company or find a walk-in-center/support group you can talk to.

    3. I think that you need to take a good long look in the mirror and think about if this marriage is really right for you, Are you marrying him because you love him or because you love the Idea of being married? It is better to be single until you are 50 than being married in an unhealthy/unloved relationship

    4. You need to be comfortable and love your self before you can expect someone to love you back. The best relationships I had (including the one with my FI) have happend when I became independent and "didn't need a man". Then Poof! bat signal to all the great guys when I was happy they knew and pursued me.

    5a. FI and I have talked about divorce and I straight up told him that if he finds who makes him happier than I make him to tell me and we will end it. I won't be happy but its better to not drag these things out. I also always make sure he packs condoms when he goes on trips without me, I would rather him cheat and be safe than put both of us at risk. I won't be happy about it but if its going to happen there is nothing I can do to stop it.

    5b. It takes 2 people to do the Horizontal Tango, and the 'homewecker' isn't solely at fault, the married one could have lied and been deceitful. Or who knows they both could be married. 

    6. You need to gain some self esteem. Repeat after me aloud, "I am a strong powerful, successful special woman," no really say it out loud. Now once more with feeling "I am a strong powerful, successful special woman,"

    7. I think you could benefit from a week or two away from your FI, go stay with a friend, hell go to a a different state, just go be by yourself and regain yourself.

    Best of luck, and maybe step away from the on-line communities for a month or two

    ETA: Yes I did read all 7 pages!

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  • Jells2dot0Jells2dot0 mod
    Moderator Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited February 2014
    preloo said:
    show previous quotes


    OP, you seem to be full of very specific examples of the type of woman you believe your FI will cheat with. Did you catch him watching these types of porn or something? You have a wildly vivid imagination and you're allowing it to drive you crazy. Note, I'm not calling you crazy. I'm telling you that you're driving yourself crazy. Your fears as irrational at best and, if they're actually warranted, they are proof that you need further therapy.

    ETA I'm also not just taking low blows at you. I graduated Summa Cum Laude with a Bachelor's degree in Social Work, and I used to specialize in domestic violence and unhealthy relationships. I'm speaking to you from my professional experience.
    No I don't think you are taking low blows at me- I think other people have, though.

    Haha no, SO doesn't watch any porn that gave me these ideas.  However I am one of the only American-born women he has dated and it often feels like he has a fetish for the "exotic" (although he insists it was only circumstance and that it's not true, that he loves me, etc).

    However it's pretty common in areas of NYC (where I was, at least) to see men in their 50s with adult kids from a previous marriage, married to some gold digging 28-year-old who wants to open her own cupcake store or something.  I know it sounds oddly specific, and yes I do have a very active imagination (I'm a creative writer in my free time, so it comes with the territory) but the Russian model thing is actually kind of a lazy stereotype on my part- it's SO common that it's not even a testament to my creativity.  I have literally seen that IRL.

    ******

     

    Not to add fuel to the fire, but not all 50 year old divorced men who are married to younger women are bad. And not all of those women are gold diggers. My DH is 51 and has adult children from his first marriage. His ex left him. I'm 34 and met my DH at work. We have the same job, and in fact, I hold a higher title on our organizational chart. He earns more than me (though no much more), but only because of the age difference. Plus, the last thing I'd do is use him for his money. I have my own, which is partly why we have a prenup. I'd NEVER use anyone's money to open a cupcake shop. Just sayin! 

    edit- crappy format

     







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  • ChemFanatic25ChemFanatic25 member
    500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 500 Comments Name Dropper
    preloo said:
    show previous quotes
    This is nice to see.  I don't mean this in a mean way, but how were you never worried about finding a good man at that age? (Obviously you did, but I mean before that)  I'm 24 and until I got engaged I was terrified of being single, I can't imagine being so calm in my thirties.  Again, I feel like a product of a different decade, but I can't imagine how anyone can do that and have fun!  So you never worried at all??  Did you date or were you mostly focused on other things?  I would love to be confident enough not to worry in that situation.
    Okay I HAVE to respond to this. If you cannot live your life by yourself and be happy with who you are by yourself (aka loving yourself) then you are not going to do very well in a relationship. Believe me I know. I was the person who always picked up after everyone else, made sure everyone else was happy and never took care of my own well being. I ended up lashing out at friends and loosing them and for a long time could not talk to my own sister who I love to death. 

    You have to take care of yourself. You cannot allow yourself to be defined by a relationship, then you, the one and only preloo, disappears from this crazy world. There are a lot of people who get married at a young age who are focused on just the relationship and nothing more - by the end of the relationship, they're too exhausted to think and give up, and sometimes it takes a long time to heal. Then you have people who are ready for a relationship - no matter what the age because they learned to love themselves first.

    Society has dictated upon us that if you (as a woman) are not married by the age of 25 you will never find true love and be happy. That is completely untrue and I personally see as extremely stupid. There are so many women on just this forum who have waited or found someone after their 30 years and guess what they are happier than a lot of 20-something year old's because they learned to love themselves first.

    Also stop with the needing a man to be happy, please stop. I am getting married, I am very excited. If I was not getting married I would still be just as well off. I am capable of taking care of myself and creating my own happiness. You can do the same. You do not need a man for that. When you get married it is to ADD to the happiness you have already created for yourself.
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  • arrippaarrippa member
    Eighth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer

    It's all about attitude. I am 38 and my FI is 39 and this is the first marriage for both us. I never spent my 30's desperately trying to get married. I had a good single life; I went out with friends, traveled the world, and yes, went out on a dates. I had a lot of fun. I never once worried about being single my whole life. If I didn't get married, that would have been fine with me.

    I am glad that you came around on the prenup but you still have a lot to go. FYI, I also have anxiety disorder but I have learned to manage it.

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  • Chipmunk415Chipmunk415 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary Name Dropper

    Stuck in box with my two cents....

    My mother was 20 when she married her first husband. Divorced at 26 and he was a cheating jerk. Met and married my dad in her mid 30s, happy, comfortable in life.

    My dad married in his early 20s. They were seperated in his late 30s, divorced in his 40s. She cheated on him multiple times with different people. At least one occasion was when he was fighting for his life at a Navy hospital. He caught her with his best friend on another occasion. On yet another, the wife of the guy she was cheating with caught them in the shower together at the guy's house. Not only men cheat.

    My sister was engaged before 30. Caught her fiancee cheating, kicked him to the curb. Met her now husband and married him in her 30s- they have two beautiful girls. She also has a pre nup- not because they don't trust each other, but because she has a medical practice and they decided to keep certain stuff seperate in case she ever got sued and cleaned out (ie, all of his savings, assets, and inheritance is kept seperate, though they have a joint account that would be a potential target). It was her suggestion, to protect him.

    I was cheated on in college. This made me wary of dating for a while but I did not automatically assume every guy would cheat.

    I asked my FI if he wanted a prenup, as he has more money saved than me. While he appreciated my concerns, we decided together it was unnecessary for us. I've told FI I don't mind if he looks/notices a pretty girl on tv or on the street- it's not like he can force himself to go blind till she's gone. My issue is if he starts touching. I trust him to know how much a betrayal would hurt me.

    OP, you may have anxiety issues, but you are letting this get blown way out of proportion. I have yet to see where you sat down with your FI and calmly discussed precisely why he wanted a prenup protecting his business, as well as how it affected you. This will not go away just because you are talking to us about it. I don't know where you are, but virtually every city has some sort of low cost/free mental health professional whom you can speak to. If not, if you are a regular church attendee, have you considered contacting your minister for counsel? It also sounds like you have strong issues in trusting your FI. Before you start planning a wedding, please please work on your relationship together, and see about getting some help other than on internet forums.

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  • abbyj700abbyj700 member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary First Answer
    Having read the 1st page and last...please seek counseling...
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  • KatWAGKatWAG member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers

    I am pretty sure I am one of those meanies that the OP is referring to since I said it was naive to say divorce isnt an option And sorry and I am not sorry. I stand by that.

    OP, I truly believe that if you dont figure out your rage/ insercurities and let go of your parents divorce, it will ruin your marriage.

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  • bananasplit472001bananasplit472001 member
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    I agree with previous posters.  Me and my FI are getting a pre-nup (his parents are divorced mine are not).  It's just a formality and means almost nothing, it's just in place in case something goes wrong.  things happen that you can't predict.  It's for your own protection too. You would leave the marriage with any and all assets that you brought into it.  Why is that a bad thing?

    If you are worried that he's going to leave you for some younger women, I think that is an issue entirely on it's own.  
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  • mimiphinmimiphin member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Molly&Domenic said:
    show previous quotes
    You really have your fiancé take condoms on business trips in case he decides to cheat? I'm all for being safe, but yikes. Well, if it works for you two that's good. It would for me, but differences are ok. No judgement. Just surprise.
    I by no means approve of cheating, and I really would be shocked if he used them, he always rolls his eyes when I add them in his shaving bag but to me it is a safety thing. I will not stand for him to put me at risk of something.
    Also do you know how many times his buddies ask for them because they forgot them.
    Same reason I always keep a condom in my wallet, while in the ladies-room and someone askes for a condom I want to be able to say yes and hand it over. 

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  • KatWAGKatWAG member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    Jells2dot0  

    Not to add fuel to the fire, but not all 50 year old divorced men who are married to younger women are bad. And not all of those women are gold diggers. My DH is 51 and has adult children from his first marriage. His ex left him. I'm 34 and met my DH at work. We have the same job, and in fact, I hold a higher title on our organizational chart. He earns more than me (though no much more), but only because of the age difference. Plus, the last thing I'd do is use him for his money. I have my own, which is partly why we have a prenup. I'd NEVER use anyone's money to open a cupcake shop. Just sayin! 

    edit- crappy format


    HOMEWRECKER!!!!!!!

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  • Alex3MomAlex3Mom member
    Third Anniversary 10 Comments 5 Love Its
    When you get married, you become first and foremost business partners.  Your marriage is a tiny corporation.  It is totally appropriate (and you should be grateful) for your fiance to want to start off on the right foot.  And while you may think divorce isn't a possibility, what about death.  I'm sorry but it does happen and I'm assuming the pre-nup describes what happens to the business in the event of death (his or yours).  While on this subject, you should also have wills and, once you're married, issues such as beneficiaries on life insurance, savings IRAs and investment accounts, etc. become very important.  I know this isn't very romantic, but quite frankly, marriage isn't all that romantic at least in a Hollywood sense.  It's really about loving and caring enough about each other to want to share all of life's joys, burdens and challenges, and it's just part of the CFOs responsibility to make sure all of these details are in order.  It really sounds to me as if your fiance is being the caring protective partner to someone who isn't ready yet for this "partnership." 
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