He wants a pre-nup, I feel horrible and insulted.

phira · February 2014

I don't feel like the OP is being attacked for no reason by catty internet assholes. She's made some hugely offensive generalizations about women and espoused some really troubling beliefs about marriage. Her reactions when people have confronted her about what she's said have ranged from run of the mill defense to just plain bizarre.

climbingsingle · February 2014

Um, holy shitballs. I can't believe I just read this whole thing.

OP, I agree with every single PP that said you need therapy. You seem to be terrified of being alone. You also seem very insecure. You should work on that before you get married.

Also, being single in your 30s is fucking awesome. And all of my single friends in their 30s would agree. Where do you live that you know all of these women in their 30s that are single and hating life? I venture to guess they are either miserable people or think they're only successful in life in they have a man.

mimiphin · February 2014

OP, We are not telling you these things to be catty internet bitches.

We are telling you these things because we are genuinely interested/concerned/worried about/for you.

Alex3Mom · February 2014

When you get married you become first and foremost business partners. You are a mini corporation. Your fiance is just taking on the responsible position of CFO and protecting assets. Divorce may not be an option, but death is. Even without a pre-nup once you're married you need to deal with wills and beneficiaries on insurance, savings, IRAs, etc. This is just proetecting the partner you love. I understand this is not very romantic, but frankly, marriage isn't very romantic at least not in the Hollywood sense. It's really about sharing life's pain and burdens as well as its joys, and poor financial planning is a sure step toward divorce - probably beats out infidelity.

When we married, my husband was just starting his own business and had no medical insurance. During our wedding dinner, he leaned over to me and said, "I think I just lost a filling." Practical bride that I was, I reassured him. "It's not a problem; you now have dental insurance." Frankly I'm happy to be a partner in our little corporation and that is romantic to me.

skyhigh27 · February 2014

One of the estate planners I work with has a different way of addressing prenups with his clients, and since I've been working at this firm, have seen a lot of good come from his tactics. One of the first things he does when he meets with a couple, is he brings his wife in —she's a marriage counselor— and together with the counselor they build their prenup in such a way that it strengthens their relationship but also protects each individual and will hold up in court as well. As others have said, talk to a counselor, discuss what you both need out of it and then meet with a lawyer, preferably one that won't bulldoze you into something that doesn't benefit you as well.

nightstarlite · February 2014

preloo said:

I'm pretty much done with this thread, I got the advice I needed and I'm familiar enough with gang mentality of women on the Internet that any "mean" comments were pretty run-of-the-mill.

However I do want to say this- I'm not going to cancel my wedding or postpone it or whatever because a bunch of strangers on the Internet said so. Who on Earth would do that? This question was about the pre-nup, not me asking for psycho-babble from armchair psychologists (not including the one therapist here- and by the way, anxiety and psychosis are two completely different things- I don't appreciate the stigma some people here are perpetuating about it). People with anxiety, believe it or not, are capable of being afraid of being alone and ALSO genuinely loving someone. When I was younger my biggest fear was my mother dying- I suppose that meant I didn't really love her, and I wasn't mature enough to even HAVE a mother. Right? I'm also not convinced that everyone must be 100% mentally strong and healthy in order to be happily married. My anxiety is genetic, and not curable. I will ALWAYS have it. So I guess that means people with any type of mental problem should just never wed, right?

People of anxiety are just as worthy of love and marriage as people who don't have anxiety. And honestly, I'm not convinced I'm the only person here with anxiety. Besides, wedding planning in general is stressful so of course my anxiety is going to be heightened during this time- I can't believe I even have to justify it.

My grandparents were married until they died, both sets suffered from variations of OCD and depression. None of them saw therapists but they had other ways of coping (they would have benefitted from therapy, but it was a different time, more stigma, etc). Having these disorders doesn't make you incapable of marrying someone or staying married. It may make relationships a little harder, but so do many other things. My SO has known me for years and years, and he has a variation of an anxiety disorder as well. Believe it or not, we're capable of loving each other like "normal" people! People with anxiety aren't just living, walking fears. We can have fears of abandonment and still genuinely love people.

By the way, no actual therapist would be able to psychoanalyze and diagnose someone, and give huge life advice like "don't get married" just by reading a few posts on an Internet forum. I've seen many therapists and all of them won't even do therapy over the phone- they need to see you in person repeatedly to make ANY conclusion about you. But alas, I forgot Internet commenters are way more knowledgeable than real doctors.

As for my supposed assertion that all age-gap relationships are bad...I just don't think I said that. My issue is with men who specifically leave their wives for younger women who knowingly sleep with the married men, hoping for a meal ticket or just being morally bankrupt pieces of shit (and by the way, in those scenarios, I think the cheater is worse than the mistress, but it takes two to tango). That obviously doesn't encompass all age-gap relationships, because many start with both people being single (and at that point, nobody is being harmed, so who cares?)

Last thing- if you never said anything rude or uncalled for, most of this comment is NOT directed at you. The vast majority of commenters were helpful or at least polite, and that's awesome, so again, thanks.

Hi OP! I am also a bride who will be signing a prenup and I also have anxiety disorder/OCD. I agree with the previous posters that you should postpone your wedding. You should not be getting married at this moment in time. This has to do with the issues you need to work out with yourself and your future husband. You say, “Why should I listen to a bunch of strangers on the internet?” You were the one who came here for advice.

Just because you have anxiety doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get help for it. Saying that it is genetic and there is nothing you can do is a complete and utter cop out. Get some therapy girlfriend; it will help work out your anxiety issues. I know you will never be fully cured but that doesn’t mean you won’t find ways to alleviate and learn to live with your anxiety. If I hadn’t worked through mine I wouldn’t be able to have such an amazing relationship with my fiancé. I would still be running around and latching onto guys that weren’t really right for me because of my fear of being alone. I would still be sabotaging myself and my relationships because of my inability able to cope with my anxiety. It wasn’t until I worked on myself that I was able to grow. I will always have anxiety but I have learned how to live with it. Some days it is extremely hard, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I completely trust my fiancé and I do not have anxiety over him leaving me for some younger secretary later in life. My fiancé was also advised to have a prenup from his financial advisor. I am fully going along with it, I understand why it was brought up. It does not bother me one bit. That being said I am still having my lawyer look over the prenup and as others have suggested, you should do the same. Please seek therapy and pre-marital counseling. It is nothing to be embarrassed of and it can completely change your life for the better.

crunchymamaof2 · February 2014

Molly&Domenic said:

There are so many over-generalizations throughout this post. There are also many "stereotypes" that I have never heard of before. @preloo Some people have said things that certainly were not nice. However, it seems like you are twisting things people say around in a weird way too. For example, you said people must think you don't love your mother because you worried about her dying? That's not the same thing as saying you should think about your future marriage carefully because you said you knew your fiancé would leave you of you weren't pretty anymore.

Thank you! Things are getting blown way out of proportion. Posters are simply telling you to be realistic. Divorce is always a possibility. Worrying excessively about loved ones dying has nothing to do with you loving them; it means you need to work on your irrational fears. I have big time anxiety (professionally diagnosed) so I know how it can be. But you're letting all these crazy fears dictate your life. No one said to go out and cancel your wedding. They simply said you should reevaluate your mental status and take care of YOURSELF before you do get married. Deep breath.

Jen4948 · February 2014

I finally got through all that since my own post. Wow.

I agree with all the PPs who say to calm down and get some therapy.

preloo · February 2014

@acove2006

True (and I'm glad to hear from so many people with anxiety too!) but people did tell me to postpone my wedding (sorry, but that is not going to happen- a year is certainly long enough for me to get therapy, if it even works- given my history I have my doubts) but also people insinuated I am getting married for the wrong reasons, or that I am only getting married to avoid being alone, which is not only insulting but ridiculously obtuse and psycho-babbly. You, of course, didn't say that, so I'm not directing this at you, but those comments would get anyone irritated. As for the incessant pleas for me to "seek therapy" I agreed to it numerous times, and each time I said i woudl do it, I saw five more posts telling me to seek therapy. Needless to say it just got annoying.

Cookie Pusher · February 2014

preloo said:

@acove2006

True (and I'm glad to hear from so many people with anxiety too!) but people did tell me to postpone my wedding (sorry, but that is not going to happen- a year is certainly long enough for me to get therapy, if it even works- given my history I have my doubts) but also people insinuated I am getting married for the wrong reasons, or that I am only getting married to avoid being alone, which is not only insulting but ridiculously obtuse and psycho-babbly. You, of course, didn't say that, so I'm not directing this at you, but those comments would get anyone irritated. As for the incessant pleas for me to "seek therapy" I agreed to it numerous times, and each time I said i woudl do it, I saw five more posts telling me to seek therapy. Needless to say it just got annoying.

I wouldn't get upset over that too much. Remember, a lot of people flat out said they didn't read the whole thread before responding (meaning that many others probably didn't read but didn't bother saying it) and at its peak, the thread moved VERY quickly. People could have responded while other posts were going up so didn't see them.

Jells2dot0 · February 2014

preloo said:

@acove2006

True (and I'm glad to hear from so many people with anxiety too!) but people did tell me to postpone my wedding (sorry, but that is not going to happen- a year is certainly long enough for me to get therapy, if it even works- given my history I have my doubts) but also people insinuated I am getting married for the wrong reasons, or that I am only getting married to avoid being alone, which is not only insulting but ridiculously obtuse and psycho-babbly. You, of course, didn't say that, so I'm not directing this at you, but those comments would get anyone irritated. As for the incessant pleas for me to "seek therapy" I agreed to it numerous times, and each time I said i woudl do it, I saw five more posts telling me to seek therapy. Needless to say it just got annoying.

People only said that to you because of the responses you posted on here. They can only give advice based on what you share and what you type. IMHO, some of the things you said raised some huge red flags, especially to some of us who have been married before. Anxiety will cause a person to have some serious thoughts and concerns that may not be rational, but a person's level of maturity will dictate how a person responds to the anxiety. Based on your posts, it seemed to many of us that you are unable to control your anxiety, and therefore, your relationship may suffer because of it. We're just looking out, not trying to belittle or demean you.

crunchymamaof2 · February 2014

preloo said:

@acove2006

True (and I'm glad to hear from so many people with anxiety too!) but people did tell me to postpone my wedding (sorry, but that is not going to happen- a year is certainly long enough for me to get therapy, if it even works- given my history I have my doubts) but also people insinuated I am getting married for the wrong reasons, or that I am only getting married to avoid being alone, which is not only insulting but ridiculously obtuse and psycho-babbly. You, of course, didn't say that, so I'm not directing this at you, but those comments would get anyone irritated. As for the incessant pleas for me to "seek therapy" I agreed to it numerous times, and each time I said i woudl do it, I saw five more posts telling me to seek therapy. Needless to say it just got annoying.

People only said that to you because of the responses you posted on here. They can only give advice based on what you share and what you type. IMHO, some of the things you said raised some huge red flags, especially to some of us who have been married before. Anxiety will cause a person to have some serious thoughts and concerns that may not be rational, but a person's level of maturity will dictate how a person responds to the anxiety. Based on your posts, it seemed to many of us that you are unable to control your anxiety, and therefore, your relationship may suffer because of it. We're just looking out, not trying to belittle or demean you.

All this! @preloo go back and carefully read your posts and replies. Several things you've said have sent up red flags. I know when speaking in panic mode things can come out exaggerated and sound different than what we're actually trying to say. Maybe this is what happened. After reading your posts, what would YOU have advised if it had been someone else posting these things. I feel most of the advice you've gotten is good given what you have posted. That is the only thing we can go by. No one wants to see you stuck in a marriage because "being single in your 30s is terrible" or for you to be constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop and your husband to leave you. It's not healthy for either of you.

MuppetOverlord · February 2014

People aren't being mean to you. Try to read the comments without being defensive.

Postponing the wedding isn't "mean" advice, it's not ridiculous to consider, and it's not a bad thing. Nor is seeking therapy. We can only react to the information you've provided and from what you've told us, your relationship may not in a healthy place to get married.

ETA: I have chronic anxiety and it absolutely can interfere with relationships. I am an advocate of therapy because I've spent a lot of time in it, working on how I handle situations and emotions better. I am a better person for it.

jenniferurs · February 2014

I personally don't believe in pre-nuptials, but can understand the rationale behind them in the case of a company with investors.

Either way, you clearly have major insecurity issues that need to be resolved prior to marriage.

flyingfoxes · February 2014

lyndausvi said:

preloo said:

lyndausvi said:

I got married for the first time at 38. I had an awesome pre-marriage life. I travelled the world then moved to the islands. Had the most amazing carefree-stressfree job, then I met my DH. My life has only gotten better since meeting him, but it was pretty damn good pre-DH.

Looking back I wouldn't change a thing.
This is nice to see. I don't mean this in a mean way, but how were you never worried about finding a good man at that age? (Obviously you did, but I mean before that) I'm 24 and until I got engaged I was terrified of being single, I can't imagine being so calm in my thirties. Again, I feel like a product of a different decade, but I can't imagine how anyone can do that and have fun! So you never worried at all?? Did you date or were you mostly focused on other things? I would love to be confident enough not to worry in that situation.
It's just not something I worried about. Did I think about marrying my prince charming? Of course, but I knew I could be happy on my own with out a man. As I said I travelled all over the world, then I got an awesome job in the islands, bought my own waterfront condo (which I had dreamed about my entire life). Life was/is great. I wouldn't go as far as to say I didn't long for a partner, but I didn't let that stop me from living.

I saw so many friends marry in their 20's then divorce in their 30's I knew marriage was not the be all, end all. I would rather be single than be married for the sake of being married.

All of this. I will be 38, a few months from 39 when I get married for the first time next spring. Sure I thought I'd be married long before, but I didn't sit around and wilt because I wasn't. I bought my own house, got a master's degree, got my passport and made some awesome online girlfriends with that I travel on cruises with about once a year. Plus my 20s were kind of miserable - I didn't know who I really was, and I wouldn't have been in a place to be a good partner to any one else. My mother left me and my 4 siblings with my dad when I was under 10, so I had some pretty bad attachment issues. I got therapy (yes, my therapist doesn't take my insurance, so I had to pay the $120/hour myself, but I set aside the money in flex-spending), which helped me out TREMENDOUSLY to recognize my own worth. Then I met my fiance, and he made all that time waiting worth every single second. Plus in my mind, I feel like I'm 20 years old, not like I'm an old spinster hag. And yes, we may have a baby too in the future. You can't put a time frame on what your life is going to be, otherwise it's going to pass you by while you worry about all the bad stuff that *could* happen.

abbyj700 · February 2014

All you crazy hags over 30 getting married? How ever did you live your life this long without a wedding ring? Please teach us your secret.

Who's worried about being alone at 24? And why?

casey8784 · February 2014

preloo said:

fourtsixand2 said:

preloo said:

My fiance and I are both young and have modest savings but he owns his own company, and so that is a large asset. He says that he would like a pre-nup which would cover this company's earnings, but nothing after this company (so if he goes onto another company later, that wouldn't be part of it). Some investor of his recommended this, and I can't even tell you how furious I am at this busybody for trying to mess things up. I take this as a direct insult to me, a sign that he doesn't even want to marry me. Divorce is not an option for me, and he knows it- so basically, this prenup is just covering HIS ass in case he wants to leave me for some slutty young secretary years down the road. Men leave women for no reason all the time, and I worry about it a lot since my parents are divorced, so this makes me VERY upset and hurt. I want divorce to be HARD so he can't run out on me easily, and there he goes, making divorce a super-fun easy route with this sh*tty prenup. I don't want to sign it, but more than that, I'm extremely hurt and I feel betrayed. To me this is a sign he doesn't even want to get married. I'm not materialistic and I've never shown that tendency in our 5+ years together. All I want is a marriage that is stable and secure and I feel like a prenup takes that away from me.

I do want to add something personal to this, though.
No offense, but you sound really aggressive. To say 'divorce is not an option' is a bit naive. I always said that myself. My parents have been happily married for 43 years, so I thought I'd never be a divorce statistic, but 3 years into it and I became one and divorced.
No one can predict the future, so saying it's 'not an option' is a great idea in theory, but you never honestly know what will happen.

I'm also a little concerned by your tone. You almost seem to assume he'll leave you for a 'slutty secretary'. If you truly are having insecurity issues where you feel he's going to run off with someone before you're even married, I would honestly advise you to seek premarital counseling. Good luck to you!

I know this is going to sound equally ignorant, but I know and hear of so many depraved women who happily sleep with married men, seek them out, and TRY to ruin marriages that I just don't trust the world. It's hard to explain, because I guess I do trust him but I feel like every man has his price. Again, I'm not defending this view because I know it's probably not logical, just letting you know where I'm coming from. It's ridiculous how many subhuman women specifically go after married men and feel no guilt. It really makes me sick.

If you trust him, then you will have to trust him to make the right decision and ward off the advances of the women who like hooking up with married men. Men do have a thing called "free will" and just because a woman hits on him, does not mean he will automatically disregard his vows and sleep with her.

Has your fiance ever given you reason to doubt his fidelity to you? I know your parents divorce haunts you, but you are badly insulting your fiance by basically saying, "I know you never have cheated on me or given me any reason to think you will, however, since MY dad divorced my mom, I think YOU are going to end up the same way." Every relationship is different and there's no basis of justifying future events based on things you've seen/heard about if they don't directly involve you or your fiance.

Marzipan13 · February 2014

@preloo

Um, excuse me?

(And agreeing with all PPs)

Edited: I realize I'm late to the party. Just commenting.

FiancB · February 2014

Read 1st and last page.

I would just like to point out that in the case of running a business, a pre nup does NOT only protect him and his business. It can also protect your personal assets should the business go under. Unless the business is incorporated, this is a very real concern. If it goes under and money is owed, banks can go after everything you have that is of value, including your house, vehicles, etc. And if you're married, the two of you are seen as a unit so they can go after your stuff as well as his. So yes, it does protect you.

I personally do not want a prenup, but we don't have any major assets or a business. If I were running my own business like I had planned, I would get a prenup for that exact reason. Businesses fail all the time. Sometimes it's pretty unforeseen.

Prenup or no, you sound extremely insecure. For how convinced you seem that FI will eventually leave, I would think you'd be the one wanting the prenup by your logic. You seem to think the only way to keep a guy around is to throw him in a cell and throw away the key, and that's a big problem. Needing counseling is not a bad thing- I'm planning on signing up for it pretty soon myself with some depression symptoms resurfacing, and there are free and low cost options out there.

arrippa · February 2014

abbyj700 said:

All you crazy hags over 30 getting married? How ever did you live your life this long without a wedding ring? Please teach us your secret.

Who's worried about being alone at 24? And why?

Wine, lots of wine.

FiancB · February 2014

Woo, went back and read the whole beast. OP, I'm glad you've come around to the pre nup and learned it's not a huge deal. I still think you've got some problems with hostility, for everything from therapy to Russians to cupcakes.

Do pedophiles make me mad? Yes. Do I give them a lot of thought on a daily basis and let it affect my life? No.

I would like to add that I was engaged when I was... 23? And eventually broke it off. I admit I was scared of being single. Looking back now I realize I couldn't trust him and he really treated me like crap but I figured that was all there was and we'd just have to make it work. I'd like to note that there wasn't anything extremely wrong with our relationship- no cheating and no abuse, he just did not add to my happiness and we weren't as compatible as I thought.

Now that I'm 27 I'm coming at it from a whole different angle. I'm in no big rush to get married and if we were to break up, obviously I'd be upset but I also know I'd be okay, and I would not be i any rush to get into another relationship.

I find the fact that you'd stay with a guy that gave you an STD simply because you believe that means the you'd definitely never find anyone else really disheartening. That, and I worry that if your marriage does go to crap when you're 30+ that you'll stay with him no matter what, not because those are your values but because you think it's awful to be alone when 30+.

emmyg65 · February 2014

FiancB said:

Woo, went back and read the whole beast. OP, I'm glad you've come around to the pre nup and learned it's not a huge deal. I still think you've got some problems with hostility, for everything from therapy to Russians to cupcakes.

Do pedophiles make me mad? Yes. Do I give them a lot of thought on a daily basis and let it affect my life? No.

I would like to add that I was engaged when I was... 23? And eventually broke it off. I admit I was scared of being single. Looking back now I realize I couldn't trust him and he really treated me like crap but I figured that was all there was and we'd just have to make it work. I'd like to note that there wasn't anything extremely wrong with our relationship- no cheating and no abuse, he just did not add to my happiness and we weren't as compatible as I thought.

Now that I'm 27 I'm coming at it from a whole different angle. I'm in no big rush to get married and if we were to break up, obviously I'd be upset but I also know I'd be okay, and I would not be i any rush to get into another relationship.

I find the fact that you'd stay with a guy that gave you an STD simply because you believe that means the you'd definitely never find anyone else really disheartening. That, and I worry that if your marriage does go to crap when you're 30+ that you'll stay with him no matter what, not because those are your values but because you think it's awful to be alone when 30+.

I read some of this, took a break, and am just checking back in, but this made me LOL.

Also, OP, when I was single, I had a very full, satisfying life. I don't think people should get into long-term relationships until they are comfortable being on their own. That's the only way you can really get to know yourself.

OnionBreath · February 2014

Is there a badge if we make it through this whole thread?

He wants a pre-nup, I feel horrible and insulted.

Re: He wants a pre-nup, I feel horrible and insulted.

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