What are your etiquette deal breakers?

grumbledore · April 2014

a13049 said:

My response to people who feel so high and mighty as to enlighten us with their all knowing wedding etiquette, while spewing verbal garbage. Yes, cursing is against standard etiquette. I am surprised at so many who live and die by Miss Manners wedding etiquette as the end all be all of etiquette and yet ignore her other works, on how one should carry themselves in everyday life.

"The basic, fundamental rule of the etiquette of communication is that you speak to edify others, not yourself. Miss Manners wrote that her advice often goes against a person’s declaration that they find it impossible not to convey their feelings regardless of the consequences to other people’s feelings and that many people seem to think that their opinions are required. Profanity is the expression of personal feelings and opinions which many declare is “immensely satisfying” and “cathartic”. We’d be silly to assume the speakers of such comments would actually mean that other people find it quite satisfying and cathartic to be the recipient of directed profanity or having simply overheard it. To achieve catharsis and satisfaction implies retaliatory rudeness in response to someone else…verbal one upmanship to trump another with shock value. It’s profanity for the sake of selfishness. How rude."

Dear Gentle Reader,

Stop being a pedantic butthole.

Love,

MM

HisGirlFriday13 · April 2014

@PrettyGirlLost
Just because everyone thinks of that as a typical wedding doesn't mean that's how all weddings have to be done. Yes, lying about your marriage is shady to begin with. But having a ceremony and reception after the legal marriage to share the experience with your friends and family when you couldn't earlier, there's nothing wrong with that. Some people can't do it when they want to get legally married because of extenuating circumstances, such as immigrant status, having children, etc, and they don't have the money to throw the party that they want. Heck, I AM getting legally married on my wedding day but my fiance and I considered not doing a ceremony at all!

And yes, I understand that gay people can't get married in many states. But according to your argument, their commitment ceremony is still not a wedding because of that legal fact.

*SITMFB*

There is a FAQ about this. Did you read that? Did you read the part where the exception to the rule (because there is ALWAYS an exception) is that if you cannot LEGALLY GET MARRIED in your state, you should have the ceremony that binds you to each other meaningfully in front of your friends/family, THEN do the legal paperwork elsewhere at another time.

But for straight people, who can get married any time and anywhere and any how and however often they damn well please, with little or no thought for what marriage means (I'm looking at you, Kim K and Britney Spears) to say, 'Oh, that was just our legal piece of paper, it doesn't mean anything!' is denigrating the rights the LGBT community is fighting for.

If you want to have a commitment ceremony, by all means, GO AHEAD AND HAVE ONE. Just call it what it is, and don't pretend like you're not married, when you are. You, as a straight person, had the opportunity to do both in the same day and chose not to, for whatever selfish reason. If you don't like the consequences of your actions, re-evaluate your actions.

martinezv21 · April 2014

jdluvr06 said:

It's kind of disheartening to see how judgy everyone is on this board! Granted I didn't read every post, but from what I've read so far, I'm kind of disappointed to see how people are so quick to say something is a 'deal breaker.' Every couple does things differently, you never know what the financial situation of a couple, I feel if you are invited, that's an honor in itself. I can somewhat understand the issue with not inviting a significant other, however, I don't feel like that would be a deal breaker. As far as the cash bar issue, I really don't see how that is an issue, how often do you go anywhere and receive free drinks? Soda, water, juice, tea, etc I can see, but liquor? Not often. As far as the dollar dance goes, this is something that is a part of my culture, I've been to maybe one wedding in my life (someone of a different culture) that didn't have a dollar dance! A good friend of mine is Nigerian and they have a 'money dance' portion as well, where the couple is sprayed with money, if this enough to have you walk out of a wedding, perhaps you should not have been invited in the first place. Just my opinion. I feel like if you are being invited to share in a couple's special day, I think it's silly to have certain expectation of how they are going to organize THEIR day, it's also silly as a couple to expect certain things from your guests, it's very simple to quietly not participate in a dollar dance, or choose not to give to a honeymoon fund.
Why don't people at least read some of the other posts before posting themselves?

Also has anyone seriously felt honored to be invited to a wedding? Happy for the couple? Sure. Excited to go? Maybe. Honored? Nope.

Huuuhhh much like you should have read the beginning of my post, where I stated I didn't read ALL 19 pages of the comments, I'm really amazed at how many of you have all this time to read through every single comment!! Anywho, many honored wasn't the right word, buuuutt, I'm simply saying I think it's silly to expect certain things from guests or as guests.

manateehugger · April 2014

lyndausvi said:

PDKH said:

Since when does not knowing the SO of someone mean that SO is no longer significant?

I didn't know people thought weddings were not good events to finally meet your close-enough-to-you-to-invite-to-your-wedding-SO?

MIND BLOWN

But if these people really loved you, they would have made sure your SO knew them.

Edited because TK sucks.

martinezv21 · April 2014

grumbledore said:

martinezv21 said:

It's kind of disheartening to see how judgy everyone is on this board! Granted I didn't read every post, but from what I've read so far, I'm kind of disappointed to see how people are so quick to say something is a 'deal breaker.' Every couple does things differently, you never know what the financial situation of a couple, I feel if you are invited, that's an honor in itself. I can somewhat understand the issue with not inviting a significant other, however, I don't feel like that would be a deal breaker. As far as the cash bar issue, I really don't see how that is an issue, how often do you go anywhere and receive free drinks? Soda, water, juice, tea, etc I can see, but liquor? Not often. As far as the dollar dance goes, this is something that is a part of my culture, I've been to maybe one wedding in my life (someone of a different culture) that didn't have a dollar dance! A good friend of mine is Nigerian and they have a 'money dance' portion as well, where the couple is sprayed with money, if this enough to have you walk out of a wedding, perhaps you should not have been invited in the first place. Just my opinion. I feel like if you are being invited to share in a couple's special day, I think it's silly to have certain expectation of how they are going to organize THEIR day, it's also silly as a couple to expect certain things from your guests, it's very simple to quietly not participate in a dollar dance, or choose not to give to a honeymoon fund.

TL;DR, posted anyway. Classic internet.

oohhh sorry, I don't speak internet, so not sure what the first two acronyms mean. Anywho, I did specify how I did not have a chance to read ALL comments, funny how everyone is upset that I didn't read all comments, yet didn't understand that from reading my post...

Viczaesar · April 2014

heyyou1203 said:

@PrettyGirlLost Nope, sticking with self-righteous. It's the "right" way to do things? What else is "right" and who decides? It's "right" to get a diamond engagement ring? It's "right" to wear a white wedding dress? It's "right" to have a receiving line, or a first dance, or to throw the bouquet? I'm sure that gay commitment ceremonies aren't the same as a "PPD," but that's my point... you make an exception for that even though they're not signing a legal document the same day. Why the exception? You're now calling everything the "wedding day." So when is the actual wedding itself? When is the one moment of marriage? Legally, it's when the certificate is notarized, which is often days later, or days before depending on how the couple wants to do it. So then the only difference is the party. Just enjoy it and stop judging.

This is not a hard concept, and you're being deliberately obtuse.

All those things in the first bolded section? Those are examples of traditions, not etiquette.

The second bolded sentence? Because gay people are discriminated against in some states, and they CANNOT legally get married there. They get a pass for the same reason that people who get married in Europe get a pass for not having the legal and religious ceremony at the same time: because they CANNOT, rather than CHOOSING not to.

PrettyGirlLost · April 2014

a13049 said:

My response to people who feel so high and mighty as to enlighten us with their all knowing wedding etiquette, while spewing verbal garbage. Yes, cursing is against standard etiquette. I am surprised at so many who live and die by Miss Manners wedding etiquette as the end all be all of etiquette and yet ignore her other works, on how one should carry themselves in everyday life.

"The basic, fundamental rule of the etiquette of communication is that you speak to edify others, not yourself. Miss Manners wrote that her advice often goes against a person’s declaration that they find it impossible not to convey their feelings regardless of the consequences to other people’s feelings and that many people seem to think that their opinions are required. Profanity is the expression of personal feelings and opinions which many declare is “immensely satisfying” and “cathartic”. We’d be silly to assume the speakers of such comments would actually mean that other people find it quite satisfying and cathartic to be the recipient of directed profanity or having simply overheard it. To achieve catharsis and satisfaction implies retaliatory rudeness in response to someone else…verbal one upmanship to trump another with shock value. It’s profanity for the sake of selfishness. How rude."

We don't care what she has to say with regards to everyday life because we aren't discussing everyday life. We are discussing etiquette in regards to weddings specifically.

But you have fun with your strawman argument!

pinkshorts27 · April 2014

lyndausvi said:

ksantos1 said:

Woah this post was not about how close I am to my friends nor my fiancé. We work in the serrvice industry my fiance and i both work more than 1 job which means that not only do we have very little free time to spend with friends we also very often have scheduling conflicts when we do have free time. My are till very close to me even though we don't spend every weekend hanging out and my fiancé and I are still very close even though we don't have all the same friends the mark of a good relationship for us that we have aspects of life that are together and others that are still separate from our coupledom

We work in the service industry also. We also do not get a lot of time together. Wouldn't you feel bad that on one of your FI's rare days off your FI would be home while you are out parting at a wedding no less because he wasn't invited?

I'm going to pick hanging out with my husband over attending a wedding he wasn't invited to every single time. Now if he was invited and had to work, then I would have no problem attending by myself.

This. I will more than happily attend a wedding without FI and have attended a wedding without him before. I also go to dinner with friends without him, my friends and our couple friends. Hell, I do a lot without him. We are long distance. But I would be extremely offended if you didn't invite him just because you haven't met him. We are engaged. Many people here haven't met him because he doesn't get travel time very often. If you got married here I would honestly probably RSVP for just me, but you invite him or I will decline and most likely not get you a gift. If you can't respect my relationship, than I can't celebrate yours.

ksantos1 It doesn't mean other people won't, it just means you are more easy going and let things roll of your back. FI is the same way. He doesn't get easily offended and if he got invited without me, it wouldn't offend him. He understands why it is wrong, he just never gets upset. He still wouldn't go out of respect for me. But if I couldn't attend anyways, I would encourage him to go (assuming it was someone close to him and not just a general friend).

Viczaesar · April 2014

martinezv21 said:

grumbledore said:

martinezv21 said:

It's kind of disheartening to see how judgy everyone is on this board! Granted I didn't read every post, but from what I've read so far, I'm kind of disappointed to see how people are so quick to say something is a 'deal breaker.' Every couple does things differently, you never know what the financial situation of a couple, I feel if you are invited, that's an honor in itself. I can somewhat understand the issue with not inviting a significant other, however, I don't feel like that would be a deal breaker. As far as the cash bar issue, I really don't see how that is an issue, how often do you go anywhere and receive free drinks? Soda, water, juice, tea, etc I can see, but liquor? Not often. As far as the dollar dance goes, this is something that is a part of my culture, I've been to maybe one wedding in my life (someone of a different culture) that didn't have a dollar dance! A good friend of mine is Nigerian and they have a 'money dance' portion as well, where the couple is sprayed with money, if this enough to have you walk out of a wedding, perhaps you should not have been invited in the first place. Just my opinion. I feel like if you are being invited to share in a couple's special day, I think it's silly to have certain expectation of how they are going to organize THEIR day, it's also silly as a couple to expect certain things from your guests, it's very simple to quietly not participate in a dollar dance, or choose not to give to a honeymoon fund.

TL;DR, posted anyway. Classic internet.

oohhh sorry, I don't speak internet, so not sure what the first two acronyms mean. Anywho, I did specify how I did not have a chance to read ALL comments, funny how everyone is upset that I didn't read all comments, yet didn't understand that from reading my post...

Why do you think they didn't understand that from reading your post? Just because you state "I didn't have time to read all the replies but..." doesn't mean that others have to accept that excuse.

grumbledore · April 2014

martinezv21 said:

grumbledore said:

martinezv21 said:

It's kind of disheartening to see how judgy everyone is on this board! Granted I didn't read every post, but from what I've read so far, I'm kind of disappointed to see how people are so quick to say something is a 'deal breaker.' Every couple does things differently, you never know what the financial situation of a couple, I feel if you are invited, that's an honor in itself. I can somewhat understand the issue with not inviting a significant other, however, I don't feel like that would be a deal breaker. As far as the cash bar issue, I really don't see how that is an issue, how often do you go anywhere and receive free drinks? Soda, water, juice, tea, etc I can see, but liquor? Not often. As far as the dollar dance goes, this is something that is a part of my culture, I've been to maybe one wedding in my life (someone of a different culture) that didn't have a dollar dance! A good friend of mine is Nigerian and they have a 'money dance' portion as well, where the couple is sprayed with money, if this enough to have you walk out of a wedding, perhaps you should not have been invited in the first place. Just my opinion. I feel like if you are being invited to share in a couple's special day, I think it's silly to have certain expectation of how they are going to organize THEIR day, it's also silly as a couple to expect certain things from your guests, it's very simple to quietly not participate in a dollar dance, or choose not to give to a honeymoon fund.

TL;DR, posted anyway. Classic internet.

oohhh sorry, I don't speak internet, so not sure what the first two acronyms mean. Anywho, I did specify how I did not have a chance to read ALL comments, funny how everyone is upset that I didn't read all comments, yet didn't understand that from reading my post...

You're boring. And we understand what you are saying, we're just messing with you/being hard on you because it's better than twiddling our thumbs for the last 19 minutes of the work day.

Viczaesar · April 2014

darriellew said:

Thanks for the feedback. I think I can understand the concern of a cash bar and why that could be considered a no, no. Perhaps I'll have an open bar for a certain period of time. You should serve the same things the entire time; don't have an open bar for part of the time and then close it or make it a cash bar. i dont personally have an issue with serving alcohol, but i was raised in a Christian household where "excessive" drinking didnt happen. So getting people boozed up two days in a row feels a bit much. The intent of the wedding is for people to witness and celebrate the marriage...not get drunk. Feeding is a must, but I think liquor is a plus. But i want to make sure it's available for those who want it.
While I can argue either side for/against cash bars, I'm still a little stuck on the attire. People have all white parties all the time. That's rude. You don't tell your guests what to wear. What makes it different if that party is your wedding? Nothing. It's equally rude in both instances. Or making it known that you would like your guests to dress formal vs. semi formal. Not okay. The only time you can indicate formality of dress is if it's a true black tie event, or if your venue has dress restrictions. That's it. No black tie optional, no semi-formal, no formal, no beach chic, and no other made up dress code. You say nothing about attire unless you're letting people know it's a black tie affair (and fits ALL the criteria of a black tie affair) or if your venue, for example, requires tie and jacket (like at a country club) or shoulders to be covered (like at some churches). If i put myself in the shoes of the guest, i would think, "gee, that may not be my favorite color, but if it's what the bride and groom want, and I'm attending to support them, then whatever". That's not reasonable or okay to expect of guests. Besides, if you dont want to wear it, then dont...no one's going to kick them out. That doesn't change the fact that the request in the first place is rude. My hope was to make the day before a little more fun...it certainly wasn't my intention to offend.

theartistformerlyknownas · April 2014

Gosh ladies, don't you know that alcoholics only get drunk when the booze is free? And when the booze is free, all guests must drink to excess. Yup, requirement of entry to my open bar wedding is two keg stands and a body shot off the minister. FI's friends and family in recovery will totally understand that open bars mean you need to get wasted. Any actual drunks in the room will be really happy to finally feed their addiction after so many weeks since the last wedding. Good thing it's not a cash bar; they wouldn't be able to get drunk on their own dime.

pinkshorts27 · April 2014

Musikalbunni said:

By the way, I don't know about 20 people who RSVP's to my wedding, but I know their significant others because they are my friends and family!

It's common courtesy and they are a social unit.

I think I don't know about half of my guest list. I don't know FI's extended family, though they quickly welcomed me on facebook and are sending me recipes and calling my cousin/niece already. I adore them. I also haven't met their SOs or their children. I've only met my MOHs long term boyfriend once when he came to FIs birthday party. Yes I invited him to that before I met him. Yes I will invite him to the wedding. I also haven't met a lot of my cousins current boyfriends/girlfriends but still will be inviting them. I didn't even think that not inviting them was an option. I didn't know that people did that, ever.

sofakingmad · April 2014

I served booze before and during my ceremony.

I wanted my guests to get drunk.

theartistformerlyknownas · April 2014

pinkshorts27 said:

Musikalbunni said:

By the way, I don't know about 20 people who RSVP's to my wedding, but I know their significant others because they are my friends and family!

It's common courtesy and they are a social unit.

I think I don't know about half of my guest list. I don't know FI's extended family, though they quickly welcomed me on facebook and are sending me recipes and calling my cousin/niece already. I adore them. I also haven't met their SOs or their children. I've only met my MOHs long term boyfriend once when he came to FIs birthday party. Yes I invited him to that before I met him. Yes I will invite him to the wedding. I also haven't met a lot of my cousins current boyfriends/girlfriends but still will be inviting them. I didn't even think that not inviting them was an option. I didn't know that people did that, ever.

I just counted. There are 50 people on my guest list I've never met. There are another ~65-70 I've met at a holiday but couldn't pick out of a lineup.

offthemarket915 · April 2014

What I can't stand is the willful ignorance displayed on this thread. It's not like basic etiquette is some ancient practice guarded under a shroud of secrecy. There are hundreds of books to guide you on what is proper and gracious. We could probably debate some minor points in any book but generally, it would put to rest all these misconceptions, the worst of which is the ridiculous idea that the reception isn't for the guests. This is not a matter of opinion. You do realize that some things are not subjective, right? That your ignorance does not cancel out the truth?

But I shouldn't be surprised. These are the same posters who will ask what acronyms stand for over and over again, rather than spend 5 seconds looking it up. Making an effort to educate themselves is prolly not in the skillset.

My hat is off to the regs who have tried to reason with those who would refuse to learn.

Couggal12 · April 2014

Stupid work kept me away from TK most of today.

Seriously if my FI was not invited to your wedding based on the fact that it's because you haven't met him then I am not going. I don't give a shit if it doesn't offend you if your FI isn't invited, cause it does offend me.

And for those offended by cuss words:

chibiyui · April 2014

Man, I go to bake cookies for a few hours and this thread KEEPS GOING.

I have wine now. I am ready.

Oh. And.

This is not getting old guys. I'm keep posting Bilbo Baggins flipping the bird. Sorry not sorry.

JCbride2015 · April 2014

Oh, goodie, we're cursing now?

@chibiyui Let's not forget our other favorite bird-flipping Brit...

offthemarket915 · April 2014

Who has that Cartman gif, with him looking trashy and saying something like, 'whatever, I do what I want"?

JCbride2015 · April 2014

Ooooh @offthemarket915, pick me pick me!

This is pretty much how I picture all those "It's MY DAY" snowflakes in my head.

offthemarket915 · April 2014

JCBride2014 said:

Ooooh @offthemarket915, pick me pick me!

This is pretty much how I picture all those "It's MY DAY" snowflakes in my head.

Thank you, it's what was missing from this thread!

chibiyui · April 2014

@jcbride2014 Can we make this a bird flipping Brits thread?

LDay2014 · April 2014

So, I'm starting to think that some view etiquette a bit like colour blindness. If you are red/green colour blind, you can't distinguish red from green right? But hey, doesn't really bother you (besides the fact you can't be a pilot) because it's all you've ever known. Doesn't mean the reds are any less red or the greens are any less green.

Think of that like etiquette...Just because something is common in your circle of fiends or you're personally not offended by it doesn't make it proper etiquette.

Etiquette is etiquette, it's a code of conduct created to help hosts properly take care of their guests...it's not really debatable. It is what it is. Just because you are etiquette blind doesn't mean you're right.

Does that make sense?

grumbledore · April 2014

LDay2014 said:

So, I'm starting to think that some view etiquette a bit like colour blindness. If you are red/green colour blind, you can't distinguish red from green right? But hey, doesn't really bother you (besides the fact you can't be a pilot) because it's all you've ever known. Doesn't mean the reds are any less red or the greens are any less green.

Think of that like etiquette...Just because something is common in your circle of fiends or you're personally not offended by it doesn't make it proper etiquette.

Etiquette is etiquette, it's a code of conduct created to help hosts properly take care of their guests...it's not really debatable. It is what it is. Just because you are etiquette blind doesn't mean you're right.

Does that make sense?

Yessss.

The traffic light is still red, even if you are color blind. Stop or you will be t-boned.

JCbride2015 · April 2014

grumbledore said:

LDay2014 said:

So, I'm starting to think that some view etiquette a bit like colour blindness. If you are red/green colour blind, you can't distinguish red from green right? But hey, doesn't really bother you (besides the fact you can't be a pilot) because it's all you've ever known. Doesn't mean the reds are any less red or the greens are any less green.

Think of that like etiquette...Just because something is common in your circle of fiends or you're personally not offended by it doesn't make it proper etiquette.

Etiquette is etiquette, it's a code of conduct created to help hosts properly take care of their guests...it's not really debatable. It is what it is. Just because you are etiquette blind doesn't mean you're right.

Does that make sense?

Yessss.

The traffic light is still red, even if you are color blind. Stop or you will be t-boned.

@LDay2014 That's a great analogy.

And if you aren't T-boned... it's because everyone else in the intersection was slamming on their brakes! They all think you're a jerk, but they're not going to say anything because they have places to go.

manateehugger · April 2014

I never understand the "well, everyone is used to it because everyone we know does it this way" objection to proper hosting. Everyone you know hosts their weddings in poor taste? Well, welcome to your opportunity to have the best wedding your friends and family have ever attended!! Seriously, who wouldn't love having an open bar, comfy seat, SO included, etc. if they've never had it that way before? I feel like people would be raving about what an awesome wedding it was. I've rarely seen a head table with dates/SO's included, but wanted to include them at our king's table. One of my bridesmaids was THRILLED that her BF gets to sit next to her; she couldn't believe it. Edited - tried for paragraphs but failed.

JCbride2015 · April 2014

@chibiyui I think this thread needs some royal class:

FiancB · April 2014

PDKH said:

I never understand the "well, everyone is used to it because everyone we know does it this way" objection to the big etiquette blunders. Everyone you know hosts their weddings in poor taste? Well, welcome to your opportunity to have the best wedding your friends and family have ever attended!! Seriously, who wouldn't love having an open bar, comfy seat, SO included, etc. if they've never had it that way before? I feel like people would be raving about what an awesome wedding it was. I've rarely seen a head table with dates/SO's included, but wanted to include them at our king's table. One of my bridesmaids was THRILLED that her BF gets to sit next to her; she couldn't believe it. Edited - tried for paragraphs but failed.

Yes, this. Most people want to try to make their wedding special and just the best ever. Why not the best etiquette as well? No one goes to a wedding and thinks gosh, I really wish they had charged me for drinks and that I had to stand through it!

My mom farts in public and around guests. I have no doubt she will let some humdingers loose at my wedding. The fact that it's my mom doesn't make it polite, nor would it be polite for me to follow suit.

LDay2014 · April 2014

JCBride2014 said:

grumbledore said:

LDay2014 said:

So, I'm starting to think that some view etiquette a bit like colour blindness. If you are red/green colour blind, you can't distinguish red from green right? But hey, doesn't really bother you (besides the fact you can't be a pilot) because it's all you've ever known. Doesn't mean the reds are any less red or the greens are any less green.

Think of that like etiquette...Just because something is common in your circle of fiends or you're personally not offended by it doesn't make it proper etiquette.

Etiquette is etiquette, it's a code of conduct created to help hosts properly take care of their guests...it's not really debatable. It is what it is. Just because you are etiquette blind doesn't mean you're right.

Does that make sense?

Yessss.

The traffic light is still red, even if you are color blind. Stop or you will be t-boned.

@LDay2014 That's a great analogy.

And if you aren't T-boned... it's because everyone else in the intersection was slamming on their brakes! They all think you're a jerk, but they're not going to say anything because they have places to go.

Yay bad etiquette analogies...Think we need to revive the PPD/birth one too? lol

What are your etiquette deal breakers?

Re: What are your etiquette deal breakers?

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