Not trying, but not being as careful...

esstee33

holyguacamole79 said:

larrygaga said:

holyguacamole79 and banana whatever your face is

You are saying women are only worth what they can produce and what they want and need doesn't matter. Only the baby matters. Mother does not matter. 

You guys are women. Are you saying that you are okay with us only caring about your baby and not you? And if that baby is a woman  when she turns 18 well fuck her, the only thing that matters is her uterus. Forget her brain. Forget her heart and her liver and her asshole. FETUS MATTERS MOST AND EVERYONE BUT THE PREGNANT WOMAN GETS TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE BABY

@larrygaga, I take it you didn't see my last post.  I volunteer with a program called Project Gabriel, which offers help to a woman who is in the midst of a crisis pregnancy.  My friends who work at a pro-life clinic provides classes to women and childcare if needed.  Those classes involve parenting, resume writing workshops, and prenatal health.  There is a lot more going on than many people realize.  

And yes, as a woman who biologically cannot produce a baby, I MUST believe that a woman is only worth what she can produce.  

Why in the fuck would a woman who wants an abortion need parenting classes? You could just, like, leave them alone and let them do what is THEIR FUCKING RIGHT TO DO and stop trying to project your beliefs on them. But, oh, god, that's just unimaginable, isn't it? How could you possibly just mind your own goddamned business about something that has absolutely nothing to do with you? 

People who protest (or otherwise interfere with clients) outside of Planned Parenthood are the worst kind of fucking scumbags. I"m here to get tests to make sure I don't have fucking cancer and you want to show me your creative little hatred signs because God says so? Fuck off. 

holyguacamole79

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

ashley8918 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

MagicInk said:

holyguacamole79 said: I've seen their pain and it's something that I personally refuse to compare to abortion.

And I've seen the pain of young woman trying to get into abortion clinics being called whore and slut by "god fearing" people trying to save their babies. Babies that mean more then the woman carrying it.

I've talked people down who want to kill themselves, because people are calling them names (like murder) for having an abortion.

Don't think that anyone chooses to get an abortion because it's easy. Because it sounds like fun. It's a hard fucking choice. Mostly because they have to put with people who want to save the fetus, regardless of what shit they're going through. Fetus first.

I have friends who stand outside of PP who do that.  Some of them are the assholes you describe, and I apologize for what they do.  I do have other friends who offer free pregnancy tests and resources to women contemplating abortion.  Those are the people I am proud to call my friends...  

I do know many pro-lifers are all about the baby, and fortunately I have seen a resurgence of people wanting to care for both the mother and the child.  I have seen a lot of these logos lately, and I think it's a better message.

And I never said that choosing to abort was easy.  I can only imagine what a gut-wrenching decision it is, and I hope that I'm never in a place where I have to contemplate that.  I also think it is courageous that you help friends who are in a dark place.  As someone who suffers with depression, I rely on people like you to talk me down when I am in panic mode.  So, sI sincerely thank you.

What I was trying to get at is the concept that miscarriage is, generally speaking, not the choice of the mother.  It is something that happens to her and to the baby.  Regardless of a reason, a woman who procures an abortion (for the most part) makes that choice to do so.  I realize there are times where she may be strongly pressured by some parties, but in the end it is a choice that she makes.  That was the distinction.

In front of Planned Parenthood, where you can get a free pregnancy test by an actual medical professional? And a shit ton of real, actual resources that are not run by those with a religious agenda? Why would that be necessary?

Actually, the PP here in Houston charges $30 for a pregnancy test.  They have admitted that it is the same exact type of test that I can get at Target for 1/5 the price.  I don't know about the PPs in other areas, but I do know for a fact that the ones here in Houston do charge for the test.

beethery

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

All that bullshit you've tried to spout about not being a hateful person and that you struggle so much with your faith. What a load or horse shit. You disgust me and your backpedaling is AWFUL.

jdluvr06

There is a whole lot of ugly coming from all sides here so I'm just going to post a pic of this binky I ordered for my niece today

. https://www.etsy.com/listing/167800832/mustache-pacifier-pink-stache-paci?ref=sr_gallery_1&ga_search_query=mustache+pacifier&ga_color=a60cf3&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

ETA: pic wouldn't work. Here is a link

Fran1985

holyguacamole79 said:

I did not see that you said "could"; for that I apologize.  I still grieve the loss of my niece/nephew, so I am admittedly sensitive to this.

I do hold the belief that life begins when the sperm fertilizes the egg.  Sometimes implantation doesn't occur and nobody is the wiser.  I recognize that by the definition that stipulates that murder is the unlawful taking of a human life, abortion does not fall into that because it is legal in the US.  I personally do hold the belief that abortion is still the taking of an innocent human life.  

As I have many friends who beat themselves up for their miscarriages and wonder if they did something wrong to cause it, I'm not going to go there any more.  I've seen their pain and it's something that I personally refuse to compare to abortion.

And its totally fine you hold that belief. Some people believe killing animals is murder. Some people believe that 9/11 is an inside job. All fine to believe- but if you start telling other people they are murders, you are going to get pushback. Because its rude, its false, and its just mean honestly. Just because you believe the act is murder, doesn't mean you can call people who commit the act a murderer. You (general you, I know you weren't the one who called Ashely a murderer) need to distinguish between what you believe and what the truth is- same way you can't go around calling men who have consensual pre maritial sex rapists.

Even if you believe something with every fiber of your being it doesn't make it true- so you are a real asshole if you go around calling women who've had abortion murderers.

ashley8918

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

ashley8918 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

MagicInk said:

holyguacamole79 said: I've seen their pain and it's something that I personally refuse to compare to abortion.

And I've seen the pain of young woman trying to get into abortion clinics being called whore and slut by "god fearing" people trying to save their babies. Babies that mean more then the woman carrying it.

I've talked people down who want to kill themselves, because people are calling them names (like murder) for having an abortion.

Don't think that anyone chooses to get an abortion because it's easy. Because it sounds like fun. It's a hard fucking choice. Mostly because they have to put with people who want to save the fetus, regardless of what shit they're going through. Fetus first.

I have friends who stand outside of PP who do that.  Some of them are the assholes you describe, and I apologize for what they do.  I do have other friends who offer free pregnancy tests and resources to women contemplating abortion.  Those are the people I am proud to call my friends...  

I do know many pro-lifers are all about the baby, and fortunately I have seen a resurgence of people wanting to care for both the mother and the child.  I have seen a lot of these logos lately, and I think it's a better message.

And I never said that choosing to abort was easy.  I can only imagine what a gut-wrenching decision it is, and I hope that I'm never in a place where I have to contemplate that.  I also think it is courageous that you help friends who are in a dark place.  As someone who suffers with depression, I rely on people like you to talk me down when I am in panic mode.  So, sI sincerely thank you.

What I was trying to get at is the concept that miscarriage is, generally speaking, not the choice of the mother.  It is something that happens to her and to the baby.  Regardless of a reason, a woman who procures an abortion (for the most part) makes that choice to do so.  I realize there are times where she may be strongly pressured by some parties, but in the end it is a choice that she makes.  That was the distinction.

In front of Planned Parenthood, where you can get a free pregnancy test by an actual medical professional? And a shit ton of real, actual resources that are not run by those with a religious agenda? Why would that be necessary?

Actually, the PP here in Houston charges $30 for a pregnancy test.  They have admitted that it is the same exact type of test that I can get at Target for 1/5 the price.  I don't know about the PPs in other areas, but I do know for a fact that the ones here in Houston do charge for the test.

Uh, no. Actually, PP operates on a sliding scale based on your income.

holyguacamole79

beethery said:

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

All that bullshit you've tried to spout about not being a hateful person and that you struggle so much with your faith. What a load or horse shit. You disgust me and your backpedaling is AWFUL.

beethery

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

All that bullshit you've tried to spout about not being a hateful person and that you struggle so much with your faith. What a load or horse shit. You disgust me and your backpedaling is AWFUL.

HAVE A GOOD FUCKING THURSDAY.

Can't backpedal from how awful you are. Thanks for bringing that all to light.

holyguacamole79

beethery said:

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

All that bullshit you've tried to spout about not being a hateful person and that you struggle so much with your faith. What a load or horse shit. You disgust me and your backpedaling is AWFUL.

HAVE A GOOD FUCKING THURSDAY.

Already am - thanks!

larrygaga

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

All that bullshit you've tried to spout about not being a hateful person and that you struggle so much with your faith. What a load or horse shit. You disgust me and your backpedaling is AWFUL.

So when you have been out argued you post a cute little gif about how much you don't care about how wrong you are.

holyguacamole79

ashley8918 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

ashley8918 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

MagicInk said:

holyguacamole79 said: I've seen their pain and it's something that I personally refuse to compare to abortion.

And I've seen the pain of young woman trying to get into abortion clinics being called whore and slut by "god fearing" people trying to save their babies. Babies that mean more then the woman carrying it.

I've talked people down who want to kill themselves, because people are calling them names (like murder) for having an abortion.

Don't think that anyone chooses to get an abortion because it's easy. Because it sounds like fun. It's a hard fucking choice. Mostly because they have to put with people who want to save the fetus, regardless of what shit they're going through. Fetus first.

I have friends who stand outside of PP who do that.  Some of them are the assholes you describe, and I apologize for what they do.  I do have other friends who offer free pregnancy tests and resources to women contemplating abortion.  Those are the people I am proud to call my friends...  

I do know many pro-lifers are all about the baby, and fortunately I have seen a resurgence of people wanting to care for both the mother and the child.  I have seen a lot of these logos lately, and I think it's a better message.

And I never said that choosing to abort was easy.  I can only imagine what a gut-wrenching decision it is, and I hope that I'm never in a place where I have to contemplate that.  I also think it is courageous that you help friends who are in a dark place.  As someone who suffers with depression, I rely on people like you to talk me down when I am in panic mode.  So, sI sincerely thank you.

What I was trying to get at is the concept that miscarriage is, generally speaking, not the choice of the mother.  It is something that happens to her and to the baby.  Regardless of a reason, a woman who procures an abortion (for the most part) makes that choice to do so.  I realize there are times where she may be strongly pressured by some parties, but in the end it is a choice that she makes.  That was the distinction.

In front of Planned Parenthood, where you can get a free pregnancy test by an actual medical professional? And a shit ton of real, actual resources that are not run by those with a religious agenda? Why would that be necessary?

Actually, the PP here in Houston charges $30 for a pregnancy test.  They have admitted that it is the same exact type of test that I can get at Target for 1/5 the price.  I don't know about the PPs in other areas, but I do know for a fact that the ones here in Houston do charge for the test.

Uh, no. Actually, PP operates on a sliding scale based on your income.

I actually called the one in Houston last year and asked because I didn't want to just blindly trust what I heard from others.  The lady told me it was $30.  Nothing was said about sliding scales.  

ashley8918

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

All that bullshit you've tried to spout about not being a hateful person and that you struggle so much with your faith. What a load or horse shit. You disgust me and your backpedaling is AWFUL.

banana468

ohannabelle said:

Yes, everyone has the right to believe what they want, and everyone has the right to say what they want.

I support those rights.

I also support adult intelligence and good judgment. Just because I have the right to say something doesn't mean it needs to be said.

My youngest has some socialization skill problems. An Autism spectrum disorder thing. I've had to spend a lot of time working with him on what should and should not be said, and what the results of our words can be.

Before he speaks, he stops and consciously asks himself, Is it kind? Is it helpful? Will it hurt anyone? and the bigass finale: Where will this lead? What will this accomplish? 

It's a good policy. Training him to think before he speaks, and consider what the results of his words are. 

So, @banana468- believing whatever you believe is fine. How you chose to express it isn't. Personal belief doesn't absolve people of the responsibility to be respectful and decent to other human beings with other belief systems. 

Was it helpful? 

Was it kind?

Were people hurt?

Where did it lead, and was anything accomplished?

If you publicly condemn and sanctimoniously judge other people as murderers, did you really think there's going to be positive result or reaction in any way? 

Nothing good was accomplished. You threw a controversial shitbomb into the room, and you're surprised that it stinks? 

You know what. You're right. I could have expressed myself and my beliefs better and my comments were insensitive. I apologize for that and to those I offended I am sorry. Especially to ashley who I can't imagine what you go through to make such a decision.

It doesn't make my beliefs any different but they could have been stated in a better way.

larrygaga

banana468 said:

Yes, everyone has the right to believe what they want, and everyone has the right to say what they want.

I support those rights.

I also support adult intelligence and good judgment. Just because I have the right to say something doesn't mean it needs to be said.

My youngest has some socialization skill problems. An Autism spectrum disorder thing. I've had to spend a lot of time working with him on what should and should not be said, and what the results of our words can be.

Before he speaks, he stops and consciously asks himself, Is it kind? Is it helpful? Will it hurt anyone? and the bigass finale: Where will this lead? What will this accomplish? 

It's a good policy. Training him to think before he speaks, and consider what the results of his words are. 

So, @banana468- believing whatever you believe is fine. How you chose to express it isn't. Personal belief doesn't absolve people of the responsibility to be respectful and decent to other human beings with other belief systems. 

Was it helpful? 

Was it kind?

Were people hurt?

Where did it lead, and was anything accomplished?

If you publicly condemn and sanctimoniously judge other people as murderers, did you really think there's going to be positive result or reaction in any way? 

Nothing good was accomplished. You threw a controversial shitbomb into the room, and you're surprised that it stinks? 

You know what. You're right. I could have expressed myself and my beliefs better and my comments were insensitive. I apologize for that and to those I offended I am sorry. Especially to ashley who I can't imagine what you go through to make such a decision. It doesn't make my beliefs any different but they could have been stated in a better way.

Thank you for admitting you were wrong. It takes a big person to do that.

ashley8918

larrygaga said:

banana468 said:

Yes, everyone has the right to believe what they want, and everyone has the right to say what they want.

I support those rights.

I also support adult intelligence and good judgment. Just because I have the right to say something doesn't mean it needs to be said.

My youngest has some socialization skill problems. An Autism spectrum disorder thing. I've had to spend a lot of time working with him on what should and should not be said, and what the results of our words can be.

Before he speaks, he stops and consciously asks himself, Is it kind? Is it helpful? Will it hurt anyone? and the bigass finale: Where will this lead? What will this accomplish? 

It's a good policy. Training him to think before he speaks, and consider what the results of his words are. 

So, @banana468- believing whatever you believe is fine. How you chose to express it isn't. Personal belief doesn't absolve people of the responsibility to be respectful and decent to other human beings with other belief systems. 

Was it helpful? 

Was it kind?

Were people hurt?

Where did it lead, and was anything accomplished?

If you publicly condemn and sanctimoniously judge other people as murderers, did you really think there's going to be positive result or reaction in any way? 

Nothing good was accomplished. You threw a controversial shitbomb into the room, and you're surprised that it stinks? 

You know what. You're right. I could have expressed myself and my beliefs better and my comments were insensitive. I apologize for that and to those I offended I am sorry. Especially to ashley who I can't imagine what you go through to make such a decision. It doesn't make my beliefs any different but they could have been stated in a better way.

Thank you for admitting you were wrong. It takes a big person to do that.

Seconded. 

holyguacamole79

@larrygaga, I posted that gif because you can't really argue with Regina George.  

lyndausvi

Hey now, lets watch ourselves. 

Some people are toeing the personal attack line on both sides of this argument.      I've seen all of you debate your points in respectful ways.  Please think before you post.

esstee33

holyguacamole79 said:

ashley8918 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

beethery said:

You are friends with some shitty people and it is very telling of your character that you'd tolerate the behavior of such WRETCHED individuals.

Hey, I point blank called them assholes.  They know where I stand on things and they know that I think the way they handle themselves is gross.  Acquaintances is a more accurate term for our relationship.

ashley8918 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

MagicInk said:

holyguacamole79 said: I've seen their pain and it's something that I personally refuse to compare to abortion.

And I've seen the pain of young woman trying to get into abortion clinics being called whore and slut by "god fearing" people trying to save their babies. Babies that mean more then the woman carrying it.

I've talked people down who want to kill themselves, because people are calling them names (like murder) for having an abortion.

Don't think that anyone chooses to get an abortion because it's easy. Because it sounds like fun. It's a hard fucking choice. Mostly because they have to put with people who want to save the fetus, regardless of what shit they're going through. Fetus first.

I have friends who stand outside of PP who do that.  Some of them are the assholes you describe, and I apologize for what they do.  I do have other friends who offer free pregnancy tests and resources to women contemplating abortion.  Those are the people I am proud to call my friends...  

I do know many pro-lifers are all about the baby, and fortunately I have seen a resurgence of people wanting to care for both the mother and the child.  I have seen a lot of these logos lately, and I think it's a better message.

And I never said that choosing to abort was easy.  I can only imagine what a gut-wrenching decision it is, and I hope that I'm never in a place where I have to contemplate that.  I also think it is courageous that you help friends who are in a dark place.  As someone who suffers with depression, I rely on people like you to talk me down when I am in panic mode.  So, sI sincerely thank you.

What I was trying to get at is the concept that miscarriage is, generally speaking, not the choice of the mother.  It is something that happens to her and to the baby.  Regardless of a reason, a woman who procures an abortion (for the most part) makes that choice to do so.  I realize there are times where she may be strongly pressured by some parties, but in the end it is a choice that she makes.  That was the distinction.

In front of Planned Parenthood, where you can get a free pregnancy test by an actual medical professional? And a shit ton of real, actual resources that are not run by those with a religious agenda? Why would that be necessary?

Actually, the PP here in Houston charges $30 for a pregnancy test.  They have admitted that it is the same exact type of test that I can get at Target for 1/5 the price.  I don't know about the PPs in other areas, but I do know for a fact that the ones here in Houston do charge for the test.

Uh, no. Actually, PP operates on a sliding scale based on your income.

I actually called the one in Houston last year and asked because I didn't want to just blindly trust what I heard from others.  The lady told me it was $30.  Nothing was said about sliding scales.  

How shocking! You actually don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. 

This is why funding is so critically important for PP and why it's fucking horrendous when asshole legislators and conservative dickwads try to pull funding and otherwise fuck with PP-- they offer their services for a fee (and $30 may very well be the going rate for a pregnancy test at the Houston one), but if you can't pay it, you can apply to have reduced charges on a scale dependent upon your income. 

They do a great deal of good for a great number of people. When I was in college and struggling with insanely painful periods, I got my BCPs for free from PP. My annual exams were like $15-30 depending on my income at the time. I would not have been able to afford regular exams otherwise. 

banana468

I reread what I stated and realized that the only possible way it could be interpreted was as holier than thou and insenstive. I do hope and pray that anyone in such a situation chooses life.

larrygaga

holyguacamole79 said:

@larrygaga, I posted that gif because you can't really argue with Regina George.  

The whole point of that movie is that she is an asshole.

I can argue with you all I want, and so can anyone else here. Don't try to make this funny and light.

KatWAG

Wow. I have never been so happy to sit in an all day meeting (without access to TK mobile) and miss this clusterfuck. 

larrygaga

BLEEP can't read

ashley8918

banana468 said:

I reread what I stated and realized that the only possible way it could be interpreted was as holier than thou and insenstive. I do hope and pray that anyone in such a situation chooses life.

While I will always disagree with you on this topic, I respect the fuck out of you for saying the bolded. 

holyguacamole79

esstee33, I'm just sharing what I know.  When I called and inquired about a pregnancy test, she said it was $30.  There was nothing said about sliding scale or anything else.  I asked if it was a blood test, and the woman on the other end of the line said it was the same kind of test you can purchase over the counter.

I also know of several women who have been able to get well woman exams from PP for an affordable price, and I'm glad they are able to do that.  I also know of another clinic here in Houston that offers very low-cost medical care and has been really making a difference.  I'm glad that there are places where women (and men) can go to get hte care they need.

ashley8918

holyguacamole79 said:

@larrygaga, I posted that gif because you can't really argue with Regina George.  

Well, Regina George is a huge fucking ass cabbage, so...

beethery

ashley8918 said:

holyguacamole79 said:

@larrygaga, I posted that gif because you can't really argue with Regina George.  

Well, Regina George is a huge fucking ass cabbage, so...

That will never cease to be funny. Never.

hellohkb

banana468 said:

I reread what I stated and realized that the only possible way it could be interpreted was as holier than thou and insenstive. I do hope and pray that anyone in such a situation chooses life.

I did choose life. Mine.

ashley8918

hellohkb said:

I reread what I stated and realized that the only possible way it could be interpreted was as holier than thou and insenstive. I do hope and pray that anyone in such a situation chooses life.

I did choose life. Mine.

ashley8918

Oh, and also this (because it's fabulous):

banana468

ashley8918 said:

banana468 said:

I reread what I stated and realized that the only possible way it could be interpreted was as holier than thou and insenstive. I do hope and pray that anyone in such a situation chooses life.

While I will always disagree with you on this topic, I respect the fuck out of you for saying the bolded. 

Thank you. I would love it if one day we agreed and in the meantime I will try not to be an asshole. Seriously.